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  Reply # 894191 11-Sep-2013 12:06
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JamieB:
Yes I understand they missed the email, but why is there even an email to disconnect me, when I just got connected to a new provider.


Because Telecom have to notify Chorus you are no longer a Telecom customer, to ensure that Telecom do not get billed by Chorus for serving you. Whether it's HDs fault, or not, I don't know - perhaps it is Chorus who got mixed up internally.




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  Reply # 894194 11-Sep-2013 12:10
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JamieB:
Inphinity:
JamieB: 
My main point is Telecom sent an abandonment after I was connected and happy with HD and there services.
I don't believe that is standard process.


You're no longer a Telecom customer, so they correctly notified Chorus of such. It is not up to Telecom to notify Chorus who you are now connected with (if anyone), that's your new providers responsibility. Take it up with HD. You even said in your first post they were notified but didn't respond about it!


I would take it up with HD, but I do not understand why Telecom would send an abandonment request after I was finally connected with my new provider. This makes no sense to me.
And this part of the process seemingly has not happened for any of HD's other customers. This was a first time.

I am trying to understand what the standard process is.
As it does not make sense for the final act of a Connection transfer to be the losing provider sending an abandonment/disconnection.

If it is HDs fault then please explain why?
Yes I understand they missed the email, but why is there even an email to disconnect me, when I just got connected to a new provider.

Does my detailed description not make sense???


As stated above HD should have followed up with the abandonment request, they're able to see this sort of thing. Telecom are just like any other ISP, their systems would send an abandonment request if services have been moved from them with no porting authority (going from POTS + Broadband straight to Naked Broadband) and abandonment requests do take some time to go through and would have happened the day you moved your services from Telecom to HD, there's no excuse on HD's part for not seeing this.

It's now HD's responsibility to reconnect you, you need to get in contact with them. Telecom are not to blame here. HD have been known to say many things to avoid blame but it doesn't necessary mean they're right, it's really their fault here since every ISP receives the automated emails from Chorus.

Telecom, like any other ISP have to talk to Chorus in order to follow up with faults, no VDSL sync indicates a serious fault outside of Telecom's network, port 25 unblock and static IP is just an online form which on average takes 24 hours to action, I think in reality you're just bagging their service.




 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 894205 11-Sep-2013 12:26
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michaelmurfy:
JamieB:
Inphinity:
JamieB: 
My main point is Telecom sent an abandonment after I was connected and happy with HD and there services.
I don't believe that is standard process.


You're no longer a Telecom customer, so they correctly notified Chorus of such. It is not up to Telecom to notify Chorus who you are now connected with (if anyone), that's your new providers responsibility. Take it up with HD. You even said in your first post they were notified but didn't respond about it!


I would take it up with HD, but I do not understand why Telecom would send an abandonment request after I was finally connected with my new provider. This makes no sense to me.
And this part of the process seemingly has not happened for any of HD's other customers. This was a first time.

I am trying to understand what the standard process is.
As it does not make sense for the final act of a Connection transfer to be the losing provider sending an abandonment/disconnection.

If it is HDs fault then please explain why?
Yes I understand they missed the email, but why is there even an email to disconnect me, when I just got connected to a new provider.

Does my detailed description not make sense???


As stated above HD should have followed up with the abandonment request, they're able to see this sort of thing. Telecom are just like any other ISP, their systems would send an abandonment request if services have been moved from them with no porting authority (going from POTS + Broadband straight to Naked Broadband) and abandonment requests do take some time to go through and would have happened the day you moved your services from Telecom to HD, there's no excuse on HD's part for not seeing this.

It's now HD's responsibility to reconnect you, you need to get in contact with them. Telecom are not to blame here. HD have been known to say many things to avoid blame but it doesn't necessary mean they're right, it's really their fault here since every ISP receives the automated emails from Chorus.

Telecom, like any other ISP have to talk to Chorus in order to follow up with faults, no VDSL sync indicates a serious fault outside of Telecom's network, port 25 unblock and static IP is just an online form which on average takes 24 hours to action, I think in reality you're just bagging their service.



I am trying to understand the process.
HD are reconnecting me!
No one is yet to explain the process, which is my reason for coming to GeekZone, to get an explanation.
Re Service: ... if the shoe fits.
Now you are Bagging HD, they have been up front about everything, they explained to me from the get go that they missed the email.
And I understand that.

 

I want to understand why an abandonment is required.
Are you saying that because of Phone + BB going to Naked requires an Abandonment procedure, pulling my connection at risk. We all know email is not a 100% reliable service, and hence why send an abandonment.

I still do not understand why an abandonment request is sent after I am newly connected with other provider.

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  Reply # 894209 11-Sep-2013 12:38
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JamieB:

I am trying to understand the process.
HD are reconnecting me!
No one is yet to explain the process, which is my reason for coming to GeekZone, to get an explanation.
Re Service: ... if the shoe fits.
Now you are Bagging HD, they have been up front about everything, they explained to me from the get go that they missed the email.
And I understand that. I want to understand why an abandonment is required.
Are you saying that because of Phone + BB going to Naked requires an Abandonment procedure, pulling my connection at risk. We all know email is not a 100% reliable service, and hence why send an abandonment.

I still do not understand why an abandonment request is sent after I am newly connected with other provider.


The process has been explained. It's not just email, they've got access to Wireline and other things to check, and I know from Experience Chorus don't just send one email.
If HD ain't receiving emails from Chorus this is a serious matter in itself for a provider. They're "fixing" it but they're also the ones that mucked up here. Abandonment requests come from every provider when services are terminated with them so HD should have been aware there was a possibility this will happen, abandonment requests are just a standard procedure to ensure Chorus is not going to bill that ISP for services they're not selling.




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  Reply # 894215 11-Sep-2013 12:47
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JamieB:
I still do not understand why an abandonment request is sent after I am newly connected with other provider.


You no pay Telecom anymore. Telecom say to Chorus you no Telecom customer anymore, no bill us please. Chorus tell HD. Rest up to HD. HD not read email. Oops. Thok stop now, head hurt from write.

Edit to add some useful content: Telecom can't force the abandonment. They can submit it to Chorus. It should, then, be passed on to your gaining service provider to reject or agree. APparently, this bit didn't happen as Chorus sent it to the wrong email at HD. This isn't Telecom's fault. Whether this is HD not advising Chorus the correct contact details, or Chorus not maintaining their contact details correctly, who knows. But, there are at least two partys who've made an error for this situation to occur, so going on a witch hunt is pointless. HD are doing everything they can to get you reconnected. Telecom aren't doing anything to stop it. It's all up to HD/Chorus (mostly the latter if it's waiting on a Chorus tech visit). HD are a good group to deal with, they'll do their best by you. That said, I also have had very good experience with Telecom.




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  Reply # 894218 11-Sep-2013 12:51
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Yyrael:
JamieB: snip

There was no need for Telecom to send this Order, To my understanding it is not normal process, so why would they do it?

Who is able to schedule this order? or is it automatic after a connection transfer?

Is there anyone out there with porting knowledge, that can quote the procedure or the rules?

Has anyone experienced the same issue?

--- X

For abandonment, it is a standard process used by all providers whereabouts a request is sent to disconnect the line because the requesting provider wants to connect services on it (this is most commonly used in move of addresses where the previous tennant has not disconnected their line and it is holding up the new tennants services being connected). Essentially the Requesting Provider sends a request to Chorus who send this on to the losing provider who then has 48 hours to respond to the request. It seems odd that HD Net wouldn't think it was normal procedure since its fairly universal for Chorus. All they had to do is advise chorus you wished to retain the line and boom request decline service retained... I don't know why the abandonment was submitted but if you PM me your account number and phone number I can have a look into it. However at the end of the day you have service with HD Net so we can't do a whole lot and even though if appears in this situation Telecom has submitted a request in error (Until I can see the process of events there is no way to tell this definitively) HD Net are also at fault for not declining it.

Anyways let me know

Cheers,

Josh


There seems to be a lot of heat directed at the OP but I can understand the confusion and frustration.

- you left a provider you were unhappy with and the services were moved to another provider
- then the services were disconnected by an action initiated by the old provider  (sure the new provider should/could have stopped it but why was it submitted in the first place?)

Like Yyrael said, on the face of it Telecom submitted a request in error.  But you won't know for certain unless you take him up on his offer and provide him with your account/phone number.



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  Reply # 894219 11-Sep-2013 12:51
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JamieB:
michaelmurfy:
JamieB:
Inphinity:
JamieB: 
My main point is Telecom sent an abandonment after I was connected and happy with HD and there services.
I don't believe that is standard process.


You're no longer a Telecom customer, so they correctly notified Chorus of such. It is not up to Telecom to notify Chorus who you are now connected with (if anyone), that's your new providers responsibility. Take it up with HD. You even said in your first post they were notified but didn't respond about it!


I would take it up with HD, but I do not understand why Telecom would send an abandonment request after I was finally connected with my new provider. This makes no sense to me.
And this part of the process seemingly has not happened for any of HD's other customers. This was a first time.

I am trying to understand what the standard process is.
As it does not make sense for the final act of a Connection transfer to be the losing provider sending an abandonment/disconnection.

If it is HDs fault then please explain why?
Yes I understand they missed the email, but why is there even an email to disconnect me, when I just got connected to a new provider.

Does my detailed description not make sense???


As stated above HD should have followed up with the abandonment request, they're able to see this sort of thing. Telecom are just like any other ISP, their systems would send an abandonment request if services have been moved from them with no porting authority (going from POTS + Broadband straight to Naked Broadband) and abandonment requests do take some time to go through and would have happened the day you moved your services from Telecom to HD, there's no excuse on HD's part for not seeing this.

It's now HD's responsibility to reconnect you, you need to get in contact with them. Telecom are not to blame here. HD have been known to say many things to avoid blame but it doesn't necessary mean they're right, it's really their fault here since every ISP receives the automated emails from Chorus.

Telecom, like any other ISP have to talk to Chorus in order to follow up with faults, no VDSL sync indicates a serious fault outside of Telecom's network, port 25 unblock and static IP is just an online form which on average takes 24 hours to action, I think in reality you're just bagging their service.



I am trying to understand the process.
HD are reconnecting me!
No one is yet to explain the process, which is my reason for coming to GeekZone, to get an explanation.
Re Service: ... if the shoe fits.
Now you are Bagging HD, they have been up front about everything, they explained to me from the get go that they missed the email.
And I understand that. I want to understand why an abandonment is required.
Are you saying that because of Phone + BB going to Naked requires an Abandonment procedure, pulling my connection at risk. We all know email is not a 100% reliable service, and hence why send an abandonment.

I still do not understand why an abandonment request is sent after I am newly connected with other provider.



Hi All,

Full disclosure, I work for HD and have dealt with Jamie on several occasions.

To Clarify, there are a few things here to set straight.

The Abandonment process is for situations where eg; You move into a new house and there is still an active phone / broadband service that is not being moved elsewhere. In order to get connected, you either have to get the Owner of that Service to call and cancel it, or have it moved (not always possible) or, get a second line installed and pay the install charges, or, Get the existing line abandoned by requesting it from your Provider.

There are supposed to be stringent criteria for Abandonment's so situations like this don't occur, unfortunately it appears that there has been a breakdown in process somewhere along the line. -- At this point we're not looking to point the fingers at anyone and lay blame, the Important thing is getting Jamie connected up again as quickly as possible which is what we are trying to do.

This situation is more complicated as it would seem that his Neighbors have been connected up at the same time (this may very well be where the Abandonment has come from) that this occurred and it would appear that the Technician has used the port Jamie was connected to, so to get him reconnected we have to get another Technician to go out and reconnect him to a new port, unfortunately this takes time and is a major inconvenience.

 

The abandonment email wasn't acted on as Chorus were sending notifications for abandonment's to the wrong email address, every other notification type was being sent to the right place, just not these, this has since been corrected. Every Losing Service Provider Notification that we receive, we follow up on with the customer to ensure it's correct and they are in fact churning away. We don't have many of these notifications come through so it's easy to take 5 minutes to follow up with the customer.
If the phone service is being disconnected in a transfer (which it was) Telecom / Whatever RSP shouldn't need to do anything except a records update on their end, Jamie had notified them that he was leaving so it should of been on file. Chorus would also notify the Losing RSP that the POTS was being disconnected, to confirm the account details within 24 hours, or it would proceed automatically. This has been process since the beginning of Chorus.

Again, to reiterate, the only foreseeable way (following process) for an Abandonment to occur, would be if the RSP (Telecom) has/had placed a New Connection order for the address and requested that the existing line be abandoned, so theirs can proceed. Process should of then seen that the connection had only been provisioned with the new RSP (HD) for 2 days, and it did not meet the criteria for abandonment.


 

At the end of the day it wouldn't appear that Telecom has done this maliciously or vindictively to spite the customer, it very well may just be an unfortunately series of events in a short amount of time that has caused such a headache; and like I said earlier, we're doing what we can to get Jamie connected back up as quickly as possible.

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  Reply # 894222 11-Sep-2013 12:54
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Inphinity:
JamieB:
I still do not understand why an abandonment request is sent after I am newly connected with other provider.


You no pay Telecom anymore. Telecom say to Chorus you no Telecom customer anymore, no bill us please. Chorus tell HD. Rest up to HD. HD not read email. Oops. Thok stop now, head hurt from write.


Reading this thread makes it very easy to understand why the OP does not understand.

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  Reply # 894224 11-Sep-2013 13:00
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sdav:
Inphinity:
JamieB:
I still do not understand why an abandonment request is sent after I am newly connected with other provider.


You no pay Telecom anymore. Telecom say to Chorus you no Telecom customer anymore, no bill us please. Chorus tell HD. Rest up to HD. HD not read email. Oops. Thok stop now, head hurt from write.


Reading this thread makes it very easy to understand why the OP does not understand.


I know, but I've been wanting to end a post with that Thok quote since November 1994, no offense intended to anyone by my wording :)




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  Reply # 894237 11-Sep-2013 13:30
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JamieB:
Inphinity:
JamieB: 
My main point is Telecom sent an abandonment after I was connected and happy with HD and there services.
I don't believe that is standard process.


You're no longer a Telecom customer, so they correctly notified Chorus of such. It is not up to Telecom to notify Chorus who you are now connected with (if anyone), that's your new providers responsibility. Take it up with HD. You even said in your first post they were notified but didn't respond about it!


I would take it up with HD, but I do not understand why Telecom would send an abandonment request after I was finally connected with my new provider. This makes no sense to me.
And this part of the process seemingly has not happened for any of HD's other customers. This was a first time.

I am trying to understand what the standard process is.
As it does not make sense for the final act of a Connection transfer to be the losing provider sending an abandonment/disconnection.

If it is HDs fault then please explain why?
Yes I understand they missed the email, but why is there even an email to disconnect me, when I just got connected to a new provider.

Does my detailed description not make sense???


Hi After looking into this I think HD might have their information a little backwards. They submitted an abandonment request to Chorus requesting Telecom disconnect the line. This went to Telecom wholesale who disconnected the line as per standard process. We don't contact customers for this since HD have flagged this to us as part of a porting process.

So to break it down from the information I have:
HD sent Telecom a abandonment request instead of an out port request.
Telecom disconnected the line as per the process they asked for.
HD have now run a new connection for you to connect the line up.

Anyways this seems pretty case closed from my side

TLDR; HD sent wrong request to Telecom, Telecom disconnected the line.

Cheers,

Josh

Edited based on HD reps post

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  Reply # 894246 11-Sep-2013 13:36
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Well that answers that! :)

Perhaps HD aren't being as open and honest as you thought :/

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  Reply # 894248 11-Sep-2013 13:42
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sittingduckz: Well that answers that! :)

Perhaps HD aren't being as open and honest as you thought :/


it would seem the Op was getting incorrect information from somewhere most likely HD from the latest info.

I think the responses by most including telecom pers have been very good just the Op couldn't understand or didn't want to but think apologies are in order.






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  Reply # 894261 11-Sep-2013 13:46
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Also further to the HD reps post, although there has been another connection at the property I cannot see any abandonments submitted by Telecom for that connection and any connections that were directed to the wrong address were deactivated as soon as we clarified the double property situation.

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  Reply # 894268 11-Sep-2013 13:58
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Yyrael:
HD sent Telecom a abandonment request instead of an out port request.


I'd almost agree with you, except it was a Transition Order to Churn the DSL, you can only request an abandonment if it is done as a New Connection order and you email Chorus requesting an existing connection to be abandoned, which it wasn't, because it was Transferring an Existing Connection. - We also have nothing to do with the phone line, we don't do POTS lines and the customer didn't want to port the number. Not interested in getting into a tit-for-tat, but this just shows some flaws in what should be BAU orders.

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  Reply # 894303 11-Sep-2013 14:50
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DrFixIt:
Yyrael:
HD sent Telecom a abandonment request instead of an out port request.


I'd almost agree with you, except it was a Transition Order to Churn the DSL, you can only request an abandonment if it is done as a New Connection order and you email Chorus requesting an existing connection to be abandoned, which it wasn't, because it was Transferring an Existing Connection. - We also have nothing to do with the phone line, we don't do POTS lines and the customer didn't want to port the number. Not interested in getting into a tit-for-tat, but this just shows some flaws in what should be BAU orders.


Alright so I've taken a final pass at this to clarify all the issue and spoken to a few people internally to clarify some details.

Firstly I need to make an apology to HD for calling them out. That wasn't really on and I apologise especially given the information that has come to light after digging much deeper, secondly I need to apologize for using the term abandonment incorrectly, we throw it around a lot and it can mean a lot of different things to us that might no necessarily be the strict term that DrFixIt wanted.

So onto the issue here given the new information I have been provided.
The "Transition order to Churn DSL" or outport or relinquishment or whatever you wish to call it was submitted on the wrong order based on an older process Chorus used which should no longer be in use and hence my initial confusion with the situation, also looking at the connection of the second customer at the address there was no indication any abandonment had been submitted and the order appeared to have processed smoothly. Looking further into this there were numerous orders run and deactivated (these essentially disappear and getting information from them is a bit tricky) to try connect the customer due to there being two properties at the address, in one of these an abandonment request was run given that (as confirmed by DrFixIt) a Naked DSL connection was at the address the business rule for this is to confirm with the customer we have the right address and then submit the request since we cannot have them call from the address as per the usual process. At this stage as DrFixIt has outlined Chorus had the email for HD abandonments and so HD were not able to advise them not to disconnect the line. Chorus process gives abandonment's 48 hours to reply or they consider this as confirmation to disconnect so Jamie has been disconnected.

 

As has been said it seems to just have been a very unfortunate series of events

Again I offer my apologies to JamieB and DrFixIt for not giving my full attention to the issue and hence providing the incorrect information initially. Hopefully this clarifies everything.

Cheers,

Josh

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