Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




282 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 3

Trusted

Topic # 129452 16-Sep-2013 17:53
Send private message

I just ordered VDSL via Telecom. During the conversation, the lady told me that my attenuation is 4 well under the 10 threshold that Chorus have for going ahead with VDSL.

Yet my old ADSL modem stats page says my attenuation is 14dB. Does that mean Telecom measure the attenuation using some other way other than reading the data off my modem?

Should I discard the old wiring between the demarcation point and my ADSL socket, so that when they install the new splitter it will work great?




Tim M, Auckland
Blog: http://paddler.co.nz





Create new topic
Mr Snotty
8078 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4052

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 896451 16-Sep-2013 17:55
Send private message

It's based on the street, so sounds like your internal wiring is pretty bad.




685 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 230

Trusted
Spark NZ

  Reply # 896456 16-Sep-2013 18:07
One person supports this post
Send private message

Hold on here. Attenuation is not just stand-alone variable for a phone line.

Attenuation is associated with a particular frequency range, and can not be talked about in isolation of that frequency range. So when comparing two attenuation values here, you may not be comparing apples to apples unless they are being measured at the same frequency.





My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

 
 
 
 


19282 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2600
Inactive user


  Reply # 896458 16-Sep-2013 18:12
Send private message

Maybe your house wiring is Kaka causing a higher attenuation

1948 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 469
Inactive user


  Reply # 896471 16-Sep-2013 18:24
Send private message

johnr: Maybe your house wiring is Kaka causing a higher attenuation


Or the copper back to the dslam is causing it too. The attenuation they quoted would normally be a dsl pre qualification so one can assume since it is so different that your internal wiring is causing it and post master filter it would be much better.



282 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 3

Trusted

  Reply # 896501 16-Sep-2013 19:20
Send private message

cbrpilot: Attenuation is associated with a particular frequency range, and can not be talked about in isolation of that frequency range. So when comparing two attenuation values here, you may not be comparing apples to apples unless they are being measured at the same frequency.

Lets assume the TG582n router comes up with the attenuation stats by checking how much the signal is attenuated as an average against all the frequencies that it uses. If that is the case, (and given my modem is only an ADSL router), one would hope the frequency range used by my modem to get the data would be lower than whatever the VDSL pre qualification test (which need higher speed (and hence higher frequency)).  So if the discrepency is caused by the frequency range difference used in the two measurements, one would expect the attenuation figure for the VDSLpre qualification test to be higher than the ADSL modem stats. Not 10 dB lower? Right?

plambrechtsen: ... since it is so different that your internal wiring is causing it and post master filter it would be much better.

The house currently have a electrician installed master splitter inside the wall behind the ADSL socket. Hence my original question - should I replace the old phone cable inside the wall with a shielded Cat 6 cable before the Chorus tech comes next week? I am scared they will install it and say I got too crappier wiring and roll back my connection to ADSL....








Tim M, Auckland
Blog: http://paddler.co.nz





222 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 45

Trusted

  Reply # 896526 16-Sep-2013 19:44
Send private message

BlueToothKiwi:
cbrpilot: Attenuation is associated with a particular frequency range, and can not be talked about in isolation of that frequency range. So when comparing two attenuation values here, you may not be comparing apples to apples unless they are being measured at the same frequency.

Lets assume the TG582n router comes up with the attenuation stats by checking how much the signal is attenuated as an average against all the frequencies that it uses. If that is the case, (and given my modem is only an ADSL router), one would hope the frequency range used by my modem to get the data would be lower than whatever the VDSL pre qualification test (which need higher speed (and hence higher frequency)).  So if the discrepency is caused by the frequency range difference used in the two measurements, one would expect the attenuation figure for the VDSLpre qualification test to be higher than the ADSL modem stats. Not 10 dB lower? Right?

plambrechtsen: ... since it is so different that your internal wiring is causing it and post master filter it would be much better.

The house currently have a electrician installed master splitter inside the wall behind the ADSL socket. Hence my original question - should I replace the old phone cable inside the wall with a shielded Cat 6 cable before the Chorus tech comes next week? I am scared they will install it and say I got too crappier wiring and roll back my connection to ADSL....






The chorus technician should be installing Cat 5 cable from the ETP to the JP and will probably install a newer splitter.

2284 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 375

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 896547 16-Sep-2013 20:26
Send private message

cbrpilot: Hold on here. Attenuation is not just stand-alone variable for a phone line.

Attenuation is associated with a particular frequency range, and can not be talked about in isolation of that frequency range. So when comparing two attenuation values here, you may not be comparing apples to apples unless they are being measured at the same frequency.



I believe you are right Sir as when I switched from ADSL2+ to VDSL my attenuation dropped quite a bit, not quite from 14 to 4, but from around ~15 to ~8 I believe.

Stu

Hammered
5096 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1075

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 896636 16-Sep-2013 22:58
One person supports this post
Send private message

Yyrael: The chorus technician should be installing Cat 5 cable from the ETP to the JP and will probably install a newer splitter.


Not what was done here. There was an existing master installed for ADSL, feeding an old BT jack via old "six way" cable. All the Chorus tech did was replace the master splitter with a new xDSL splitter.

Quick and easy for him. I'm going to have to upgrade the cabling etc myself if I want it done.




Keep calm, and carry on posting.

 

 

 

Click to see full size Click to see full size




282 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 3

Trusted

  Reply # 899005 20-Sep-2013 13:55
Send private message

OK - Got a new VDSL2 modem by courier - plugged it in - and the speed / bandwidth stays the same - but Ping ties takes a dive from 30+ to 10ms.

How do I know when the VDSL2 kicks in - or does it not happen till he Chrorus guy replaces the ADSL splitter with a VDSL2 splitter? 




Tim M, Auckland
Blog: http://paddler.co.nz





685 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 230

Trusted
Spark NZ

  Reply # 899047 20-Sep-2013 15:00
Send private message

The switchover doesn't happen until the Chorus tech comes.

Depending on what modem you've been sent, you may have to factory reset it if it doesn't immediately link up and grant you internet access with VDSL as you've plugged it in early.

Your sync rate in your modem will give you the new speeds at the connect time, but it can take a little longer for the Telecom systems to update your profile.  I.e. it may be a few hours after the Chorus tech leaves the site that you'll get the full speeds on any speedtest site.




My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

3682 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1390

Subscriber

  Reply # 899123 20-Sep-2013 16:49
One person supports this post
Send private message


Not what was done here. There was an existing master installed for ADSL, feeding an old BT jack via old "six way" cable. All the Chorus tech did was replace the master splitter with a new xDSL splitter.

Quick and easy for him. I'm going to have to upgrade the cabling etc myself if I want it done.


Is it possible to replace that six way? Chorus REQUIRE installers to run a new cable to the ETP of it isn't up to scratch. An old six way is better than an old tru-rip but if it was me I would want a proper twisted pair cable.
If it was me I would demand Chorus back.

Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Geekzone Live »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.