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646 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 74824 15-Jun-2007 15:25
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sbiddle:
mjsit&t:
sbiddle:
n00dy: The problem that arises is that there is no clear answer on what type of frequency they will choose.


This has been pointed out in all of Telecom's Press Releases. It will be a WCDMA 2100Mhz 3G network in metropolitan areas and 850MHz GSM with EDGE overlay in the rest of the country.



still trying to find where they actually say that - they mention a blend, some sources in the industry believe they will run both GSM and WCDMA on both 2100mhz and 850mhz so it will be intersting to see. The only media release stating this Juha's which was the first to break the news. That release mentioned the WCDMA / HSPA @ 2100mhz and GSM /EDGE @ 850mhz. But that has not been confirmed by TNZ yet. They are keeping pretty quiet about the details.

 



Well there is no GSM 2100MHz so that instantly rules that out.

In regards to the 850MHz Telecom could potentially run both GSM and UMTS in their AMPS B spectrum but it would seem crazy to do that, they're far better off just sticking with GSM because the added bandwidth that WCDMA will offer isn't a big deal as they will have EDGE and have an existing CDMA network that will still be running in parallel. Within 5 years time WCDMA LTE will be reality and Telecom can dump their GSM and skip a whole generation of WCMDA gear that would all be obsolete had they gone that way and have a great network.

Going 100% 850MHz WCDMA would be a stupid decision since one of the key factors that necessitated this build was the issue of roaming. So few people have 850MHz WCDMA handsets that the market for inbound roaming customers would be very small whereas most GSM handsets these days are all 850 GSM capable and a large % sold in the past 1-2 years are as well.

To quote from the initial Telecom press release


Coverage and spectrum use
Coverage will be provided utilising a blend of WCDMA/HSPA at 2100 MHz and GSM/EDGE at 850 MHz technologies.

In particular, 850 MHz spectrum will be utilised to ensure strong rural coverage is achieved, with 2100 MHz employed largely in cities and large metropolitan areas.



This makes it pretty clear it's a 2100MHz WCMDA network and a 850 GSM/EDGE network, I'm not sure why so many people seem to be confuded about it.





Yeah, once i took a look at Juha's release i saw that info there. Your right certainly seems like Telecom will continue the CDMA build of Rev A and still will have EDGE for GSM users on mobile and data cards. So after looking at this again Telecom may be covering all bases with out investing a tonne of capital either way.





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  Reply # 74827 15-Jun-2007 15:51
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mjsit&t: I guess the rumours of EVDO Rev A being loaded at all new sites and then all sites within 12 months are possibly true..?


Not totally sure what you mean by that, but as far as I know, the Rev A rollout is far advanced already, with most sites upgraded. Yes, even here in the sticks on Auckland's North Shore...




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 74831 15-Jun-2007 16:05
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Sorry bout that, i meant that they are rolling out not just to EVDO sites but all existing 1xRTT sites as well.





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Master Geek
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  Reply # 74833 15-Jun-2007 16:10
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LOL

Thought I'd get in and say thanx for the replies (before the discussion got technical again)

The water aint so muddy now

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  Reply # 74836 15-Jun-2007 16:41
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And to throw my 'two bobs worth' in:

Telecom are not unique with what they are proposing. For example, Telefonica O2 in Czechoslovakia operate a GSM network for voice and UMTS 2100 for data (in some places) but they also have an extensive CDMA EVDO at 450MHz network for broadband.

If you look at their coverage maps UMTS/HSDPA has a very small footprint whereas EVDO coverage is massive.

It seems quite common for Eastern European GSM operators to also have an EVDO 450MHz network for broadband. Obviously UMTS 900 may change all that in the future.







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  Reply # 74838 15-Jun-2007 16:47
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Wonder why Telecom didn't go 850MHz HSPA?




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  Reply # 74839 15-Jun-2007 16:52
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juha: Wonder why Telecom didn't go 850MHz HSPA?


As sbiddle said, it's got to be a move to get some of the roughly $200m inbound GSM roaming fees that Vodafone milk at the moment.  They have to use the 850MHz for GSM to do that, I assume.




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  Reply # 74840 15-Jun-2007 16:53
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Jama: And to throw my 'two bobs worth' in:

Telecom are not unique with what they are proposing. For example, Telefonica O2 in Czechoslovakia operate a GSM network for voice and UMTS 2100 for data (in some places) but they also have an extensive CDMA EVDO at 450MHz network for broadband.

If you look at their coverage maps UMTS/HSDPA has a very small footprint whereas EVDO coverage is massive.

It seems quite common for Eastern European GSM operators to also have an EVDO 450MHz network for broadband. Obviously UMTS 900 may change all that in the future.



To be fair, that's because that's what they purchased when they brought the remnants rather than a grand strategy of Telefonica's.....




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  Reply # 74841 15-Jun-2007 16:59
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JonC: juha: As sbiddle said, it's got to be a move to get some of the roughly $200m inbound GSM roaming fees that Vodafone milk at the moment. They have to use the 850MHz for GSM to do that, I assume.


Well, for some US providers, but 900MHz GSM would be better, surely? 850MHz HSPA would line up with Australia.




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  Reply # 74987 18-Jun-2007 09:53
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juha: Well, for some US providers, but 900MHz GSM would be better, surely? 850MHz HSPA would line up with Australia.


Very true...

Anyway, here goes an article from Stuff that seems to mirror this thread's contents:  http://www.stuff.co.nz/4097568a28.html.  In it, Telecom's Mark Ratcliffe seem to imply that they won't lock their phones, but they're expecting Vodafone to lock theirs.  It also hints that if Telecom had used the 850MHz for WCDMA, it might have led to a partnership with Telstra but would still be happy to wholesale to TCL.  Even more incredibly, they're open to the idea of using Vodafone's network for roaming, especially in rural areas!

Big changes in store for the mobile market in NZ over the next few years...






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  Reply # 74990 18-Jun-2007 10:25
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JonC:
juha: Well, for some US providers, but 900MHz GSM would be better, surely? 850MHz HSPA would line up with Australia.


Very true...

Anyway, here goes an article from Stuff that seems to mirror this thread's contents:  http://www.stuff.co.nz/4097568a28.html.  In it, Telecom's Mark Ratcliffe seem to imply that they won't lock their phones, but they're expecting Vodafone to lock theirs.  It also hints that if Telecom had used the 850MHz for WCDMA, it might have led to a partnership with Telstra but would still be happy to wholesale to TCL.  Even more incredibly, they're open to the idea of using Vodafone's network for roaming, especially in rural areas!

Big changes in store for the mobile market in NZ over the next few years...







Locking phones isn't necessarily evil, it's simply a reality of business. You can guarantee that Telecom will lock their phones and that Vodafone will do exactly the same thing. If you buy a phone unsubsidised or are out of contract you'll probably find that there will be similair policies as many other providers where the unlock codes are available for free. If you buy a phone at subsidised price then expect to pay the full cost of your term contract to get the unlock code. Customers simply can't expect to get a $600 phone for $99 and then be able to move it to another network.

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  Reply # 74992 18-Jun-2007 10:38
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That's true and I can see why operators lock you into a contract to give you subsidised phones.  But there are some mobile operators around the world that lock you into a contract, lock "your" phone and then don't unlock the phone for you when you've finished your contract.  Here's hoping TC and VF don't go down that path.





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Reply # 74993 18-Jun-2007 10:40
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juha: but 900MHz GSM would be better, surely? 850MHz HSPA would line up with Australia.


Don't Vodafone own all the 900MHz GSM frequency at this point in time?

nzbnw









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  Reply # 74995 18-Jun-2007 10:45
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nzbnw: Don't Vodafone own all the 900MHz GSM frequency at this point in time?

nzbnw


Yes, relatively.

188 03-Apr-2003 28-Nov-2011 Current VODAFONE MOBILE NZ LIMITED 897.500000 907.400000
39 21-Oct-1994 29-Jun-2012 Current VODAFONE MOBILE NZ LIMITED 907.400000 915.000000
36 20-May-1993 29-Jun-2012 Current THE CROWN ACTING BY AND THROUGH THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE MINISTRY OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT 935.000000 935.900000
180 22-Nov-2002 29-Jun-2012 Current THE CROWN ACTING BY AND THROUGH THE SECRETARY OF COMMERCE 935.900000 939.000000
181 22-Nov-2002 29-Jun-2012 Current VODAFONE MOBILE NZ LIMITED 939.000000 942.500000
187 31-Mar-2003 28-Nov-2011 Current VODAFONE MOBILE NZ LIMITED 942.500000 952.400000
40 21-Oct-1994 29-Jun-2012 Current VODAFONE MOBILE NZ LIMITED 952.400000 960.000000



94 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 75011 18-Jun-2007 14:27
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juha: Telecom and Alcatel have confirmed the details already, so yes, 850MHz GSM/EDGE and 2100MHz HSPA.

As for Unlocked Phones... the campaign starts now. I don't know how common 850/900MHz GSM phones will be, but if they become available, they should not be permitted to be locked into a single provider.


Hey Juha, if you check out phonescoop you'll find there are stacks of current model Nokia's, HTC, Sony Ericsson that support both 850 and 900 GSM (and 1800/1900 for that matter).

As the previous poster correctly states, Vodafone holds all the (primary band) 900 spectrum except they've just done a deal to sell Econet some (down towards the guard band).

Primary band 900 is the widest deployed but there's heaps of 850 around and the majority of phone models support it - so-called quad band models. Some then add 2100UMTS for 3G.

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