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222 posts

Master Geek


  # 984339 11-Feb-2014 18:05
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hio77:
overkill:
hio77:

really does leave me questioning though, how easy is it for this to happen? why does it happen? is it simply lack of proper documentation on which pair is which?


It can be very easy to happen and for all sorts of reasons.  But it can be mostly avoided by the technician working on the network testing before removing/adding jumpers in an exchange/cabinet, or testing the cable pair before "chopping" it when working in a DP.  It would be great if the cable records where updated for every change, but it doesn't quite work out that way.


so for the most part, one could put it down to arrogance or lazyness then?
I wouldn't say arrogance, but definitely a degree of lazyness or overworked mistakes. 




"Setting the Standard in Quality and Commitment"

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  # 984360 11-Feb-2014 18:33
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I've watched a similar line error happen for a VDSL install.
The tech provisioned it, went to the exchange, and then came back, attached the modem and then called their support desk. The support desk read back approximately 45Mbps attainable line rate based on loop attenuation but no VDSL connection present.
After troubleshooting with the modem, and me insisting it was syncing on the web interface at ~25Mbps he went back to the exchange and realised he'd set up the wrong line. I'm guessing they temporarily killed someone elses ADSL when they swapped the profile on the wrong port.

It's really concerning how common this is and easy it is to happen.

 
 
 
 


306 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 984371 11-Feb-2014 18:48
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Most of the time this happens due to incorrect records as well - or multiples in the cable and intacta not being recorded before new connections happen

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Uber Geek


  # 984392 11-Feb-2014 19:21
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Incorrect records is the biggest issue.

The record management system, ICMS, is lovingly referred to as 'I see a mess'.

We have network unbundling to thank for that.

306 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 984405 11-Feb-2014 19:40
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And faultmen and provisioners who dot update cable records

1948 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 984535 11-Feb-2014 21:22
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chevrolux: Incorrect records is the biggest issue.

The record management system, ICMS, is lovingly referred to as 'I see a mess'.

We have network unbundling to thank for that.


Ahhh I would love to know the person or company who could easily or cheaply replace all the years and years of business logic built up in ICMS with another product.

IRD has a similar issue, and their quote was 1.5 Billion to replace the tax system......

1867 posts

Uber Geek


  # 984841 12-Feb-2014 10:20
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Ahh, brings back the memories of "party Lines" on Ak's Nth Shore back in the 70's

Wasnt spare capacity for new users phone lines, so had to share with other users & go on a waiting list for months
We had our own ph number but the line was shared & could just pickup the phone & listen to other users calls. Also had to wait for them
to finish their call before we could make our call .

Back when the Govt owned Telecom & didnt invest in needed upgrades.

 
 
 
 


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Vocus

  # 984844 12-Feb-2014 10:23
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I bet for 1.5 Billion, Oracle would come on in and fail to replace ICMS... then you could let them go and say "See?" and if that's not worth 1.5 Billion, I don't know what is :)

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  # 984938 12-Feb-2014 11:33
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It's it a security issue too, these crossed wires must be breaching peoples rights to privacy and could be classed a electronic spying. Souldn't a business working in this area be obligated to do everything possible to prevent this kinds of accidents. When a customers private info is released to the public the company holding that data has to contact all parties involved to let them know of a breach. Does Chorus do that.
With the separation of Chorus then maybe it would be time for a new ICMS, one that is up to the job and doesn't cause such violations of peoples rights.
This reflects on how Telecom didn't put the money into modernising business improvements when it had the chance. I guess now, Chorus thinks that's it's cheaper to carry on as is and just pay the fines than invest in something modern.

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Uber Geek


  # 984952 12-Feb-2014 11:41
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plambrechtsen:
chevrolux: Incorrect records is the biggest issue.

The record management system, ICMS, is lovingly referred to as 'I see a mess'.

We have network unbundling to thank for that.


Ahhh I would love to know the person or company who could easily or cheaply replace all the years and years of business logic built up in ICMS with another product.

IRD has a similar issue, and their quote was 1.5 Billion to replace the tax system......


Yea as much as I like to complain there is just no way it is ever going to change. I couldn't even begin to fathom that kind of scale task.

What I was surprised with was that UFB tracings are going in to it too! I really would have thought that would be prime opportunity to just start with a fresh system. I guess running the two side by side would just end up in just a big a mess.

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  # 985026 12-Feb-2014 13:10
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plambrechtsen: 

Ahhh I would love to know the person or company who could easily or cheaply replace all the years and years of business logic built up in ICMS with another product.

IRD has a similar issue, and their quote was 1.5 Billion to replace the tax system......


The same way you build any good successful software: With a strong team of class software developers, building small well tested parts/components, building from the outside in.

Rod Drury on the IRD system and Ben Gracewood on Novapay nail the correct approach imo:

http://nbr.co.nz/ird

http://www.nbr.co.nz/fix

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Inactive user


  # 985165 12-Feb-2014 15:00
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Ragnor:
plambrechtsen: 

Ahhh I would love to know the person or company who could easily or cheaply replace all the years and years of business logic built up in ICMS with another product.

IRD has a similar issue, and their quote was 1.5 Billion to replace the tax system......


The same way you build any good successful software: With a strong team of class software developers, building small well tested parts/components, building from the outside in.

Rod Drury on the IRD system and Ben Gracewood on Novapay nail the correct approach imo:

http://nbr.co.nz/ird

http://www.nbr.co.nz/fix


I think IRD and Novapay are two completely separate issues, I know how IRD figure came to be "calculated". Novapay was just poorly managed from the outset (INCIS anyone?) so things went from bad to worse.

I can only think of one recent very significantly sized project that went very well where MSD replatformed Swiftt from the linc mainframe into Java over a weekend that is a realistic way of not having to re-write all the years of business logic that has been built into your system.

But we are just talking about a simple accidental dual jumpering issue.



35 posts

Geek


  # 987053 13-Feb-2014 22:38
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So it turns out that logging a fault through 120 is the best option and a tech will come out (not sure if to the exchange or to my place).

Yes some could accuse me of spying and gathering "meta-data" but who wants to listen to recordings of an elderly woman talking to her friends about Jesse Ryder?

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