Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 
7684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2531

Subscriber

  Reply # 1107823 13-Aug-2014 17:35
2 people support this post
Send private message

sounds like you dont know much about how VDSL works :) VDSL has bits in common with other types of DSL but there is a whole other part to it.

DLM is dynamic, you have a 10day training period after a port reset when DLM tires to give you the most stable line with out sacrificing too much on speed. in that 10 days you may see a couple of resyncs and changes in speed. this generally lowers your ping and sometimes lowers your bandwidth. after the 10 days thats normally the DLM profile/sync speed you are stuck on. I havent seen many people go up in sync speeds after the 10 day peroid, the only exception is if they go from a 8B band plan to a 17A band plan, which as pointed out earlier requires those 3 factors.

you havent posted up your INP or delay stats so we dont know what DLM profile you are on so we cant really give you too much more info on how your line will end up.

FYI, i lost 17A about 2.5 months ago due to a line fault, i started back on 53Mbps then dropped to 52Mbps but gained about 16ms less ping.

The fact that more people are hopping on VDSL because they cant get fiber means those with high sync speeds start loosing those speeds and those with low speeds loose those speeds too.

there is nothing really you can do if the wiring in your house is up to scratch. it is what it is and thats a best effort service.

'That VDSL Cat'
8244 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1747

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1107832 13-Aug-2014 17:41
One person supports this post
Send private message

Jase2985: sounds like you dont know much about how VDSL works :) VDSL has bits in common with other types of DSL but there is a whole other part to it.

DLM is dynamic, you have a 10day training period after a port reset when DLM tires to give you the most stable line with out sacrificing too much on speed. in that 10 days you may see a couple of resyncs and changes in speed. this generally lowers your ping and sometimes lowers your bandwidth. after the 10 days thats normally the DLM profile/sync speed you are stuck on. I havent seen many people go up in sync speeds after the 10 day peroid, the only exception is if they go from a 8B band plan to a 17A band plan, which as pointed out earlier requires those 3 factors.

you havent posted up your INP or delay stats so we dont know what DLM profile you are on so we cant really give you too much more info on how your line will end up.

FYI, i lost 17A about 2.5 months ago due to a line fault, i started back on 53Mbps then dropped to 52Mbps but gained about 16ms less ping.

The fact that more people are hopping on VDSL because they cant get fiber means those with high sync speeds start loosing those speeds and those with low speeds loose those speeds too.

there is nothing really you can do if the wiring in your house is up to scratch. it is what it is and thats a best effort service.


the 10 day training period is simply 10 days where they poll at an increased rate, and in turn, profile changes are pushed far more rapidly.

after that the same system is at play, its just much slower at deciding on a move.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


7684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2531

Subscriber

  Reply # 1107837 13-Aug-2014 17:44
Send private message

just checked and i have less than 7 days of my 90 remaining, i dont think i will get back onto 17A though

'That VDSL Cat'
8244 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1747

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1107838 13-Aug-2014 17:45
Send private message

Jase2985: just checked and i have less than 7 days of my 90 remaining, i dont think i will get back onto 17A though


thats not to say it will take an extra month to move to 17a though. or even that your 100% likely to flop over to 17a.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




4 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1109905 17-Aug-2014 13:08
Send private message

Yes, you're right. I don't know a lot about VDSL, because it's not that commonly used in my country because of really good and well spread fibre and cable infrastructure. I know a lot about ADSL and SHDLS though, but hey concepts are quite similar.

From what I heard from second level support that I talked with few times, and from basic facts, I don't think DLM is enabled all the time. IMO they enable DLM during initial connection (like you said first 10 days) and IF user has problems and complains about them. If you think DLM is enabled all the time please explain this: I had a faulty modem which was causing my DSL to drop up to 15 times a day. Sometimes it worked fine for few days, but mostly it was causing problems on a daily basis. How come that my profile NEVER changed and modem was always synced with about 55-60Mbps? But changing plan from 150 to 500GB just dropped it to 30Mbps. The fact is that my line can definitely handle more than 41Mbps and I can actually see the Chorus cabinet located across the street. When initially installed it synced with 60Mbps and that they have "reset" the port and it synched with 41Mbps. I'm sure that Telecom/Spark is changing profiles to 8b (possibly using custom profiles) for all high usage users (probably not for 500GB plan, but they do it definitely for unlimited users + they limit the throughput during the peek hours). They messed my plan by mistake and changed it to unlimited and presumably that's the reason why I am where I am currently.

I definitely agree with comments from everyone and I know what D stands for and thanks to you I have better understanding of VDSL profiles, but there is definitely some kind of profile manipulation for heavy users by Spark/Chorus present here.

4960 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1573


  Reply # 1109907 17-Aug-2014 13:20
One person supports this post
Send private message

darac:  [snip]
From what I heard from second level support that I talked with few times, and from basic facts, I don't think DLM is enabled all the time. IMO they enable DLM during initial connection (like you said first 10 days) and IF user has problems and complains about them.


It's always enabled, however it is far more aggressive in changing in the first 10 day period and then slows to a far less aggressive rate of change. The idea is to rapidly settle on a good profile when a new connection is activated (first 10 days) and then it will (should) really only change if there is a significant change to the line after that. In the real world, this is usually increased background noise from other new connections coming on line meaning a profile jump that will keep the noise margin at 12.0dB and a resulting lower downstream sync rate for the user.

'That VDSL Cat'
8244 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1747

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1109937 17-Aug-2014 14:29
Send private message

CSRs very commonly state that DLM is only active for the first 10 days, its rather frustrating to read really, considering you assume the CSR knows what they are talking about.

NO isp can influence your profile, apart from resetting your line... if they could, then every man and his cat would be queuing up to jump on the 17a 9db snr profiles, which would be a huge overhead for chorus to manage considering they push DLM on every line.


what spark could be doing is traffic shaping after your physical DSL connection.. although ild expect more people to have complained on gz if this was happening.


your line when it was resyncing alot, probably lost DLM profiles, but not changed bandplans..



it would be very bad for them to be randomly resetting peoples DLM for being "too heavy usage", likely that would surface on here pretty quick and backfire. so ild say that is defiantly not the case here.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


7684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2531

Subscriber

  Reply # 1109954 17-Aug-2014 14:58
Send private message

what was your attenuation when you were connected at 60mbps?

the more people who get VDSL the more those who already have it suffer

'That VDSL Cat'
8244 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1747

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1109957 17-Aug-2014 15:01
Send private message

Jase2985: what was your attenuation when you were connected at 60mbps?

the more people who get VDSL the more those who already have it suffer


6.1 on 8b, so ild say about 8~9 on 17a looking at the first post.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


3602 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2131

Trusted
Spark NZ

  Reply # 1109963 17-Aug-2014 15:06
One person supports this post
Send private message

darac: Yes, you're right. I don't know a lot about VDSL, because it's not that commonly used in my country because of really good and well spread fibre and cable infrastructure. I know a lot about ADSL and SHDLS though, but hey concepts are quite similar.

From what I heard from second level support that I talked with few times, and from basic facts, I don't think DLM is enabled all the time. IMO they enable DLM during initial connection (like you said first 10 days) and IF user has problems and complains about them. If you think DLM is enabled all the time please explain this: I had a faulty modem which was causing my DSL to drop up to 15 times a day. Sometimes it worked fine for few days, but mostly it was causing problems on a daily basis. How come that my profile NEVER changed and modem was always synced with about 55-60Mbps? But changing plan from 150 to 500GB just dropped it to 30Mbps. The fact is that my line can definitely handle more than 41Mbps and I can actually see the Chorus cabinet located across the street. When initially installed it synced with 60Mbps and that they have "reset" the port and it synched with 41Mbps. I'm sure that Telecom/Spark is changing profiles to 8b (possibly using custom profiles) for all high usage users (probably not for 500GB plan, but they do it definitely for unlimited users + they limit the throughput during the peek hours). They messed my plan by mistake and changed it to unlimited and presumably that's the reason why I am where I am currently.

I definitely agree with comments from everyone and I know what D stands for and thanks to you I have better understanding of VDSL profiles, but there is definitely some kind of profile manipulation for heavy users by Spark/Chorus present here.


You are very wrong on most points.

- Spark doesn't control DLM in any way
- We don't change port profiles for 150 / 500 / unlimited customers because of the above point about not controlling DLM in any way
- We don't own the DSLAMs, so we can't control the DLM in any way.

You are 100% wrong about there being any sort of profile manipulation for heavy users by Spark or Chorus.

Cheers - N


7684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2531

Subscriber

  Reply # 1109965 17-Aug-2014 15:07
One person supports this post
Send private message

"but i have to blame something for me not getting the speed i use to get"

3602 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2131

Trusted
Spark NZ

  Reply # 1109966 17-Aug-2014 15:09
2 people support this post
Send private message

Jase2985: "but i have to blame something for me not getting the speed i use to get"


BOFH - "Solar Flares"

N :-)


'That VDSL Cat'
8244 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1747

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1109969 17-Aug-2014 15:12
Send private message

Talkiet:
Jase2985: "but i have to blame something for me not getting the speed i use to get"


BOFH - "Solar Flares"

N :-)



tell me where i find theres flares! i must kill them all!





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


7684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2531

Subscriber

  Reply # 1109974 17-Aug-2014 15:23
Send private message

at the end of the day VDSL is a best effort service, and you are well and truely above the minimum level. there is not a lot you can do about it

1 | 2 
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Targus set sights on enterprise and consumer growth in New Zealand
Posted 13-Aug-2018 13:47


Huawei to distribute nova 3i in New Zealand
Posted 9-Aug-2018 16:23


Home robot Vector to be available in New Zealand stores
Posted 9-Aug-2018 14:47


Panasonic announces new 2018 OLED TV line up
Posted 7-Aug-2018 16:38


Kordia completes first live 4K TV broadcast
Posted 1-Aug-2018 13:00


Schools get safer and smarter internet with Managed Network Upgrade
Posted 30-Jul-2018 20:01


DNC wants a safer .nz in the coming year
Posted 26-Jul-2018 16:08


Auldhouse becomes an AWS Authorised Training Delivery Partner in New Zealand
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:55


Rakuten Kobo launches Kobo Clara HD entry level reader
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:44


Kiwi team reaches semi-finals at the Microsoft Imagine Cup
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:38


KidsCan App to Help Kiwi Children in Need
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:32


FUJIFILM announces new high-performance lenses
Posted 24-Jul-2018 14:57


New FUJIFILM XF10 introduces square mode for Instagram sharing
Posted 24-Jul-2018 14:44


OPPO brings advanced technology to the smartphone market with new device
Posted 24-Jul-2018 09:20


Hawaiki Transpacific cable ready-for-service
Posted 20-Jul-2018 11:29



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.