Spark launches new wireless broadband service

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Reply # 1526560 5-Apr-2016 21:30

tangerz:

ajw:

tangerz:

ajw:

Coverage is also part of the equation, remember there original wireless network was planned using 850MHZ. So they will still have to place sites close to urban areas to achieve 2300 and 2600 coverage which is going to cost millions and the resultant outcry from Nimby's and councils.

Not necessarily. I'm sure Spark will have this 4G service across multiple bands including 700MHz which has even better reach/penetration than 850MHz. Deployment of 2.3/2.6GHz on even just their current tower locations would no doubt see a large percentage of urban customers in coverage. Those who aren't could likely be serviced by either the 1.8GHz or 700MHz network in a kind of 'infill' situation.

This may (necessarily) involve external antennas pointed at certain towers and/or locking modems to certain towers/frequencies but even still I don't imagine deployment is going to be too difficult.

To get the best results using 2300 and 2600 you have to be line of site to the nearest cellsite. And these bands will hardly penetrate walls let alone having the same coverage as the 850MHZ band. Perhaps somebody can explain to you signal propagation and the effects of using different frequency bands and coverage.

This article explains what I mean.

http://hightechforum.org/low-versus-high-radio-spectrum/

Yeah I know enough about signal propagation at higher frequencies to know it's not as easy as with the sub 1000MHz frequencies, hence my comments on the probable necessity of external antennas for service at these (2.3/2.6GHz) frequencies and the use of the lower 1.8GHz and (especially) 700MHz as 'infill'. It may be that it ends up less like the Skinny Broadband 'plug and play' model and more like the Vodafone RBI Wireless or Spark's own Rural Wireless Broadband with technician install, external antennas etc.

You must remember too that the Spark network has not been built out solely based on 850MHz, but on 1.8GHz and 2.1GHz as well, frequencies that have more in common with 2.3/2.6GHz than they do with 850MHz.

Anyway, not looking to argue on something that, (at this stage at least), is still just speculation on my part as to what Spark might be up to with this $9 million purchase.... guess we'll know by Christmas!

At this stage they are still trialling this product so time will tell.

matisyahu

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Reply # 1526590 5-Apr-2016 23:19

ajw:

kawaii:

I hope that they build more cell sites because 1.8GHz struggles to reach my house which makes 2.3Ghz is out of the question. These are great moves by Spark but they need to start deploying 700MHz in urban areas which hilly terrane such as the Hutt Valley because God knows I've got no 4G signal and I certainly don't live in the wop-wops.

No 4G coverage for me in Stokes Valley. Even marginal 3G on the spark network according to the coverage map.

alasta:

kawaii:

I hope that they build more cell sites because 1.8GHz struggles to reach my house which makes 2.3Ghz is out of the question. These are great moves by Spark but they need to start deploying 700MHz in urban areas which hilly terrane such as the Hutt Valley because God knows I've got no 4G signal and I certainly don't live in the wop-wops.

If these fixed location 4G services become a mass market option then the telcos will probably need more towers anyway to build capacity. Otherwise existing infrastructure is going to get seriously congested at peak times, even if they do utilise newly available radio spectrum.

Unfortunately, even if Spark had a fit of generosity in term of investing into more towers it is almost guaranteed that NIMBY's and councils will fight tooth and nail every step of the way. That being said I do find it interesting that I put in my mum's place and with Skinny she can get wireless broadband but on Spark she can't. Are Spark rolling out something that is unique to their Spark setup hence the difference in coverage? the use of VoIP for calls via LTE - is that something they'll open up to for their mobile customers as well?

tangerz:

Yeah I know enough about signal propagation at higher frequencies to know it's not as easy as with the sub 1000MHz frequencies, hence my comments on the probable necessity of external antennas for service at these (2.3/2.6GHz) frequencies and the use of the lower 1.8GHz and (especially) 700MHz as 'infill'. It may be that it ends up less like the Skinny Broadband 'plug and play' model and more like the Vodafone RBI Wireless or Spark's own Rural Wireless Broadband with technician install, external antennas etc.

You must remember too that the Spark network has not been built out solely based on 850MHz, but on 1.8GHz and 2.1GHz as well, frequencies that have more in common with 2.3/2.6GHz than they do with 850MHz.

Anyway, not looking to argue on something that, (at this stage at least), is still just speculation on my part as to what Spark might be up to with this $9 million purchase.... guess we'll know by Christmas!

It'll be interesting to see how closely the existing network of cell sites mirror their network back when they were running a CDMA2000 network running on 1800MHz because when Telstra made the move to 850MHz they closed down a tonne of cell sites and saved themselves a tonne of money which makes me wonder whether Telecom/Spark did the same thing when they transitioned from CDMA 1800MHz to WCDMA at 850MHz.

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Reply # 1526665 6-Apr-2016 07:20

kawaii:

It'll be interesting to see how closely the existing network of cell sites mirror their network back when they were running a CDMA2000 network running on 1800MHz because when Telstra made the move to 850MHz they closed down a tonne of cell sites and saved themselves a tonne of money which makes me wonder whether Telecom/Spark did the same thing when they transitioned from CDMA 1800MHz to WCDMA at 850MHz.

Spark never ran CDMA 1800 (and there isn't such a thing anyway - CDMA isn't specced for 1800MHz and only runs on 1900 which couldn't be used in NZ). Their CDMA network was 100% 850MHz.

johnr

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Reply # 1526669 6-Apr-2016 07:26

CDMA2000 the 2000 was not related to the frequency the network used

amiga500

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Reply # 1526692 6-Apr-2016 08:43

One person supports this post

Most of my Speedtest.net and Speedofme tests have shown upload speeds close to the download speeds. Such as around 40 Mbps down 30 Mbps up. I'm on Skinny. I've had one or two tests above 50 and none under 30.

amiga500

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Reply # 1526697 6-Apr-2016 08:53

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Sorry, should have quoted the question about upload speeds. Forgot that I had one speedtest.net test that was 20 Mbps down and around 30 Mbps up.

Beccara

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Reply # 1526707 6-Apr-2016 09:29

FDD LTE is a very different beast to TDD, Depending on the config mode you get around 70-80mbit down/7-8mbit up in perfect conditions on a 2x2 20mhz where as 2x2 20mhz FDD will give you 130ish by 40ish

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DonGould

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Reply # 1526728 6-Apr-2016 09:37

freitasm:

Just received:

Spark launches new wireless broadband service for selected urban customers

"This isn't possible", "this can't be done", "there isn't enough spectrum", I could go on with a list and dozens and dozens and dozens of reference posts telling you that this just won't work and will never be offered by a serious carrier... yet here we are today! :)

This is fantastic, but it's also the reason why I just don't believe folk when they say stuff can't be done... it just means "we haven't figured it out 'yet'".

Personally I expected we'd get to this day where we see this. As most people know, I'm not traditionally a Telecom/Spark 'fanboi', but well done guys!

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johnr

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Reply # 1526730 6-Apr-2016 09:38

DonGould:
freitasm:

Just received:

Spark launches new wireless broadband service for selected urban customers

"This isn't possible", "this can't be done", "there isn't enough spectrum", I could go on with a list and dozens and dozens and dozens of reference posts telling you that this just won't work and will never be offered by a serious carrier... yet here we are today! :)

This is fantastic, but it's also the reason why I just don't believe folk when they say stuff can't be done... it just means "we haven't figured it out 'yet'".

Personally I expected we'd get to this day where we see this. As most people know, I'm not traditionally a Telecom/Spark 'fanboi', but well done guys!

This was for when you were wanting unlimited data

johnr

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Reply # 1526731 6-Apr-2016 09:38

DonGould:
freitasm:

Just received:

Spark launches new wireless broadband service for selected urban customers

"This isn't possible", "this can't be done", "there isn't enough spectrum", I could go on with a list and dozens and dozens and dozens of reference posts telling you that this just won't work and will never be offered by a serious carrier... yet here we are today! :)

This is fantastic, but it's also the reason why I just don't believe folk when they say stuff can't be done... it just means "we haven't figured it out 'yet'".

Personally I expected we'd get to this day where we see this. As most people know, I'm not traditionally a Telecom/Spark 'fanboi', but well done guys!

This was for when you were wanting unlimited data

DonGould

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Reply # 1526738 6-Apr-2016 09:49

johnr: This was for when you were wanting unlimited data

Sorry John I'm not quite following...

If you're making a reference to a suggestion that it will likely fall in a heap if they offer up unlimited data at the wrong price point without some management, they 'yes'... I also see dozens of other potential issues (which I'm quite sure I'll find if I read back over the past 6 pages, which I don't have time to do today), but my post was very much just an ack of the mere fact that these guys are giving this a nudge.

I'm not going to engage with the FUD and doubters on this one, I don't think, because I know enough to know that many of the potential comments made by many here, will be quite right.

I had my first play with a UFB fibre yesterday, and 'ya', it's cool stuff eh?! Show me a 3ms ping in a congested suburb on wireless...

What this stuff says to me is that there's a layer 2 solution for every situation, and this is going to make our jobs 'on the network edge' a bit more complex, giving us the challenge to pick the right solution for the customer and making sure we move people from product to product as their individual requirements warrant.

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quickymart

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Reply # 1526812 6-Apr-2016 10:57

Would you have the coverage to use it in the places you want to though Don (ie, your camping ground)?

DonGould

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Reply # 1526818 6-Apr-2016 11:11

quickymart:

Would you have the coverage to use it in the places you want to though Don (ie, your camping ground)?

'my' camping ground should be on the RBI and I don't really understand why it's not. I haven't been back to find out.

'my' camping ground is going to continue to be an interesting situation for a while longer I think, but that's a bit off topic and I have work to do.... MUST CLOSE GEEKZONE BROWSER... MUST.... MUST... just one more minute boss... just one....

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SaltyNZ

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Reply # 1526837 6-Apr-2016 11:20

Well, RBI wireless access still has a wholesale 30GB cap on it, IIRC. Of course, your retail provider isn't legally obliged to pass on that 30GB cap to you, but since they are going to be charged for it, it would be suicide for them not to. So you're not going to get unlimited data on RBI wireless any time soon either...

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DonGould

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Reply # 1526921 6-Apr-2016 12:44

That 'open data day' on Telstra.au seems to have been interesting. While I get the dynamics, 1Tb on 4G in one day is impressive in my mind! Speeds at 180mbit.

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