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95 posts

Master Geek


  # 114393 3-Mar-2008 19:59
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I had one client that would not use a photocopier because she was pregnant and was told that the radiation would hurt her child.

How do you deal with that as an employer?

However, I am not going to have a cellphone tower above or near my head or my kids' ...

I have NOT read the research and probably will not.  I am a radio / radar / comms tech from WAY back and I would prefer that someone else takes that risk, thank you.

DS

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 114395 3-Mar-2008 20:05
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I don't understand. You won't go near a cell tower because you haven't done the research and won't do the research, but you are a comms tech from way back?

Just how far back are we going here? Has anyone successfully managed to roast a marshmellow off a radio tower yet?

 
 
 
 


95 posts

Master Geek


  # 114408 3-Mar-2008 20:25
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weblordpepe: I don't understand. You won't go near a cell tower
because you haven't done the research and won't do the research, but
you are a comms tech from way back?

Just how far back are we going here? Has anyone successfully managed to roast a marshmellow off a radio tower yet?


There is just some stuff we don't quite understand yet.

I don't care HOW safe some bloke says XYZ tachnology is I personally would rather stay away from it if I can.

When we were kids they sun was a heaven-sent pleaseure ... we sun-bathed for hours on end because we were told this was the thing to do.

Tomorrow I expect the results from a recent biopsy.

For every "study" you read there are just as many that will quote the opposite. I choose not to live under power lines. I choose not to live under a cellphone tower, thank you. That is my choice. You send YOUR kids there ... and I'll keep funding the health system JUST IN CASE they need it.

OK, lets just swap topics for a second. I worked for a large supplier of drugs to reduce cholsterol. Their sales reps were convinced of the benefits of lowering cholesterol and would have had 100% of the population taking it ... just to be safe. "It is a good thing" and they could back it up with STACKS of research.

Now, imagine for a second that the research is biased in some small way POSSIBLY because of some funding arrangements.

If I presented you with 2 papers, one showing a 66% reduction in heart attack related deaths that could be attributed to the use of "statins" and one showing that for every 200 people that take statins only 1 will benefit but up to 60 may suffer from side effects which report do you think will get published?

I choose NOT to have a cellphone tower above my head. I choose NOT to have a motorway on my doorstep. I do NOT want to breathe the output from a dioxin factory. I choose not to take pills to lower my cholesterol ....

YOU may choose what you wish and you should allow other people have their opinion. They can protest whatever they like in complete ignorance of the facts and that is their right. How do you think governments get elected?

I grew up with several "Thalidimide babies" as friends and the research said THAT stuff was safe as well.

Life is about choices, my friend. Let them have a choice.


DS

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 114504 4-Mar-2008 05:43
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If you want to CHOOSE to have no radio signals passing through your body then I suggest you build yourself a large bunker under a mountain, cover it with multiple layers of lead and concrete and say bon voyage to the world, because right now you have signals from cell towers, TV transmissions, radio stations, all sorts of radios, satelites, pounding you and your children from all different angles. And even then you'd still have some backround radiation from the metals and the earth. Please get rid of your microwave, your cellphone if you have one, your car - everything that involves electicity causes some amount of electromagnetic radiation. You obviously have a computer or have access to one - how do you know that isnt causing damage if you dont want to read any research?

If you want to be consistent in using your logic, Give up every peice of unnaturaly-occuring technology NOW. Give up your computer, your home electronics, your microwave, your car. All these things cause some amount of electromagnetic radiation.

Yes there were many chemicals and things that caused problems but there were also far less reliable research methods and far more 'she'll be right' attitude. If there were severe negative effects of radio transmissions on the human body, you wouldnt need research - you would be seeing the effects. Its not like we're just considering turning on things now, radio transmissions have been around for years and years and years and years. You would be seeing deformities NOW.

You 'choose' not to have motorways on your back door step? How does one make that choice? Does everyone have that choice? Are we all going to live far away from motorways, and then demand that better roads be built in our vicinity, oh but certainly not near MY property - build them next to the people down the road, and here's some money for a lobby group?

I am all for reducing environmental impacts of infrastructure and I strongly think New Zealand should be looking to more efficient ways for things like roading and transport, but I base my opinion on reality, not fear and selfishness. Everyone basically has two options: stop using technology, or start converting more natural resources into capacity. We can argue now that there are better sites for things like wind farms and hydro dams, but what about in 50 years when all the 'out of the way' sites are taken. Then you really will be faced with a choice between stopping technology growth, or using newer unproven technology, using those precious resources, or using environmentally unfriendly sources.

If everyone had permission, knowledge, and resources to make a choice then sure, life would be all about choices. I'm sure if all indigenous peoples in the world could CHOOSE to be given what's theres, they would. If people could CHOOSE to live free from poverty, they would. If people could CHOOSE to live free from human rights abuses they would. But are we just going to do nothing because the research isn't unaminous? If I could choose to be super happy with super happy friends and live in a super happy world then I would, but that is not reality, but I do my fair bit to change for the better whatever small way I can.

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  # 114905 5-Mar-2008 20:23
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I would rather have a tower close by so the phones need less power to transmit back, therefore less exposure to the EMR from your handset. If I am on a long call at home on my GSM, the battery dies really quickly and I get a headache, same length call at tech on the GSM and no headache and good battery life - Guess which I prefer?




Richard rich.ms

643 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 114926 5-Mar-2008 21:35

aside from the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation is the conservation of energy principle - or call it what you will, the sum total of all the energy in the universe = 1.

this impacts RF energy as much as it effects astrophysics, it goes without saying. it is known that as RF (non-ionizing) energy passes through any medium some energy is lost due to attenuation (to throw out a bunch of text books: attenuation is to AC circuits what resistance is to DC circuits). the amount of attenuation differs depending upon medium composition. In RF, the attenuation - per the conservation of energy - is "lost" to the receiver but, is actually converted to heat/kinetic energy in the transmission path of the medium, this is known as dielectric heating and is what your microwave oven does by resting on the fact liquid H2O molecule has an attenuation peak at 2.45GHz (sound like a familiar frequency?). the whole idea behind specific absobtion rates (SAR) in cellphone safety testing rests on a biological fact that cell mutation occurs more frequently during meiosis when the temperature is more than 1 degree centigrade from the cells natural (in humans: body temperature) temperature. since RF energy can and is converted to heat readily (smelt cooked clouds underneath high power MW transmitters up hills before?) this presents a risk albeit extremely small.

the effects of transmission and transceiving towers on human health is very well documented, maybe there are just too many hippies in Nelson? Camoflauging it probably reduces cancer rates given that placebo is real! :-)

wondered why your ear feels hot after a phone call?

level of energy during attenuation is square of the distance hence the pattern seen here. this image is from dipole radiation pattern.




Sniffing the glue holding the Internet together

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  # 114949 5-Mar-2008 22:48
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Is that bad? It's got a picture. It looks bad.

Can it be shielded/reflected away from the body?

Should experiments be done at Towers, the see if and field issues develop.

 
 
 
 


836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 114955 5-Mar-2008 23:30
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barf: aside from the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation is the conservation of energy principle - or call it what you will, the sum total of all the energy in the universe = 1.


Thats a bit non sensical, its like stating the number of oranges I have is my basket is 1 where 1 is equal to the number of oranges in my basket. I think what your trying to say here is that with conservation of energy that energy is never lost but only changes into other forms of energy?

barf: this impacts RF energy as much as it effects astrophysics, it goes without saying. it is known that as RF (non-ionizing) energy passes through any medium some energy is lost due to attenuation


And propogation in freespace? :) No, nothing is lost and if you had a spherical antenna with a transmitter inside in freespace then you would get 100% of the energy transmitted from the receiver at the antenna.

barf:
wondered why your ear feels hot after a phone call?
pattern.


Has less to do with the conversion of microwave energy into thermal than the fact that you have had an insulating peice of plastic on the side of you head for the last several minutes. Laughing

86 posts

Master Geek
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# 115547 9-Mar-2008 11:53
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I work in the old Vodafone building, and we have a cell site in our server room.
Oh God! It Burns! Sealed

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who work there would go for this kind of alarmist BS...all the while not knowing what's lurking in the basement, heh heh.


637 posts

Ultimate Geek
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# 115573 9-Mar-2008 17:58
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I'm personally waiting for the femto market to happen.  If people start buying femtos for the home, I hope that the macro nonsense goes away.

It will be a great deal of amusement!

1819 posts

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# 115597 9-Mar-2008 19:28
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The OZ radio is back with another look at the issue.

2008-03-09 What is killing the frogs? - A reply to last week's talk

from Ockham's Razor

Last week on this program Barrie Oldfield looked at the decline of frog populations and suggested that electro magnetic radiation and mobile phones may play a role in their demise. Today, Professor Rodney Croft, Executive Director of the Australian Centre for Radiofrequency Bioeffects Research, responds to last week's talk and tells us of his research in this area.

836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 115637 10-Mar-2008 02:20
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Acually I must say up on the RF decks on Sky Tower if you have been working up there for some hours you can start feeling a little nauseous. Mind you you would feel the same working for a few hours in a place they do epoxying in too.



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