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nunz

1421 posts

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  #1667289 10-Nov-2016 11:49
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mattwnz:

 

I can kind of understand their position. I would think that more than 50% of support tickets are for email, which is a service people aren't really paying for anyway. But a lot of people do stay with spark, because of the xtra email address, so they don't want to lose it. But I guess they can't have it both ways. By only supporting webmail makes a lot of sense, as they have 100% control over whether people can access that or not. 99% of problems people have with email (no including Yahoo)  who are using software like outlook aren't to do with the email provider, but with the users own computer, the settings are wrong, or  a network problem.

 

 

 

I don't understand how Microsoft comes into providing support at all. They provide the OS, and in some cases, they sell people outlook, but many people use other email clients as well.

 

 

Spark will only tell you how to get to the web mail version of their email. If you want to set up your outlook they send you a five step process with no server names, ports or other info in it.

 

Even if they did provide the name of pop3.xtra.co.nz as a server  -it is not working for "hundreds of their clients"  <their words not mine>.

 

You need to go to Microsoft ( 0800 800 004 ) who remote log in and set up your pop to use pop.mail.yahoo.com  as your mail server and changes your username to be username@xtra.co.nz   instead of just username  MS say they are receiving hundreds of calls from Spark clients and having to do this exact process.

 

The reason Spark wont fix it themselves is they dont want people knowing you have to use pop.mail.yahoo.com and then having to change that when the final shift occurs back to what ever their pop and imap servers will be.

 

If Spark would pull their heads out of their [INSERT APPROPRIATE  ORIFICE HERE] and actually tell people there is a temp issue for some users owing to the shift, then they would save the users a lot of aggravation and MS a lot of wasted time.

 

Spark will do this fix for you remotely - at a cost. IE they broke it - you pay to fix it.

 

It s now Spark's HelpDesk's policy to point you at the old settings for pop and imap (fix it yourself) and will only support you getting onto the internet and accessing web mail. they provide no follow up support or help if you have correct settings and it suddenly fails owing to them dickering around with stuff. "You need to refer to the vendor of the third party app for support" - Spark standard answer / quote.

 

 

 

Where this leaves Spark users is if Spark screw up their authentications / servers etc, you are stuffed! There is no fixing it. They will not hlep with that other than getting you onto the web mail system.

 

My client could access their Spark email via web mail, username and password. Their pop / outlook 2010 stopped accessing mails ( along with hundreds of other clients) as Spark has messed things up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


nunz

1421 posts

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  #1667293 10-Nov-2016 11:57
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richms:

 

With the moving of mailboxes and stuff that information may be subject to change or something as the move happens. Its a free addon for an internet connection so I can understand wanting to put as little as possible into the effort in supporting it.

 

 

 

 

It's a free add on until you leave Spark and then they charge for it - so actually it has a financial value to it. further more they charge businesses and organisations to use it - e.g. my client has a "proper" email address ( .ac.nz ) but thet is managed by them logging into Sparks mail servers to collect it. Spark then handed that responsibility off to Yahoo ( via MSN first) so the log in, mail etc is handled by yahoo, you log into pop.xtra.co.nz but the email address is an @ac.nz email address. same as Google - they manage your domain email.

 

Spark charges for this so it is not free.

 

 

 

Side Note: One of the main reasons to use Outlook is it automatically opens the app when you click on mailto: links and similar. There is a good add on for Firefox here that logs you into your web mail and does the same experience for you.

 

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mailtowebmails/

 

 

 

 


  #1667323 10-Nov-2016 13:07
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nunz:

 

mattwnz:

 

[snip]

 

I don't understand how Microsoft comes into providing support at all. They provide the OS, and in some cases, they sell people outlook, but many people use other email clients as well.

 

 

Spark will only tell you how to get to the web mail version of their email. If you want to set up your outlook they send you a five step process with no server names, ports or other info in it.

 

 

Maybe the problem is that you have failed to ask Spark to move your email 'home' to NZ, and they're telling you how to continue to use the Yahoo! product?

 

 

 

I don't know why I'm so special, but they sent me an email with links in it, so I clicked and then followed the golden trail until I found instructions for Outlook 2013, those said basically "no need to change anything", but they gave the names of the servers - nothing to do with 'yahoo' at all. The only change I have to make is to remember to go to xtramail.co.nz (it just redirects to yahoo at the moment) instead of nz.yahoo.com when I want webmail.
But then I did ask them to bring my email home to NZ

 

 




chevrolux
4962 posts

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  #1667325 10-Nov-2016 13:08
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It's a free add on until you leave Spark and then they charge for it - so actually it has a financial value to it. further more they charge businesses and organisations to use it - e.g. my client has a "proper" email address ( .ac.nz ) but thet is managed by them logging into Sparks mail servers to collect it. Spark then handed that responsibility off to Yahoo ( via MSN first) so the log in, mail etc is handled by yahoo, you log into pop.xtra.co.nz but the email address is an @ac.nz email address. same as Google - they manage your domain email.

 

 

 

Spark charges for this so it is not free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's even worse then. Why anyone would use the Yahoo platform for their own domain just boggles the mind. There are soooooooooooo many other great options for basic imap/pop mailboxes i just don't know why anyone would bother with 'business hub mail' or whatever that cr4p is called. IMO you are doing your client a massive disservice by helping them fix yahoo mail - I just say no, but here is what I can offer instead.

 

I use Umbrellar for people who want basic mailboxes. Priced well. Works well. And then you can also manage your domain and DNS records all in the same place. Ideally though I will push for Office 365 when people want mail on their phones etc. Better margins on that too seeing as we can sell a proper service with it - people see the value.


1101
3040 posts

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  #1667405 10-Nov-2016 14:34
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nunz:

 

Spark will only tell you how to get to the web mail version of their email. If you want to set up your outlook they send you a five step process with no server names, ports or other info in it.

 

Even if they did provide the name of pop3.xtra.co.nz as a server  -it is not working for "hundreds of their clients"  <their words not mine>.

 

You need to go to Microsoft ( 0800 800 004 ) who remote log in and set up your pop to use pop.mail.yahoo.com  as your mail server and changes your username to be username@xtra.co.nz   instead of just username  MS say they are receiving hundreds of calls from Spark clients and having to do this exact process.

 

The reason Spark wont fix it themselves is they dont want people knowing you have to use pop.mail.yahoo.com and then having to change that when the final shift occurs back to what ever their pop and imap servers will be.

 

 

Really, what a lot of nonsense. Spark do need assume some modicum of intelligence , and dealing with someone ranting nonsense would make it hard for them

 

it took me 10 secs to find ALL the info needed (google)
https://www.spark.co.nz/help/internet-email/getstarted/how-to-set-up-xtra-email-for-the-first-time/

imap, pop, server settings are all there .Spark arnt trying to hide anything .
this has nothing to do with MS , so why anyone would call MS to fix a personal email issue ...

"pop.mail.yahoo.com"  . Just bad advice , that server address .
is not needed (I have xtra email on 3 devices ) I have never had the need to use that yahoo server address.

 

What can sometimes happen, is the xtra/yahoo email a/c gets locked out for whatever reason . Sometimes it simply a matter of logging in via
webmail to fix it , other times it may just start working again after a day or so of being locked out . This is rare , but does happen (or used to happen, but rarely).

 

 

 

 

 

 


yitz
1697 posts

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  #1667413 10-Nov-2016 14:46
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Firstly I don't believe it when you say a third party domain is being hosted on the Xtra email system. At a guess they are forwarding mail from an external email system to their @xtra.co.nz address.

 

 

Also a username followed by @xtra.co.nz has always been required to authenticate on the Yahoo system.

nunz

1421 posts

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  #1667514 10-Nov-2016 16:37
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chevrolux:

 

 

It's a free add on until you leave Spark and then they charge for it - so actually it has a financial value to it. further more they charge businesses and organisations to use it - e.g. my client has a "proper" email address ( .ac.nz ) but thet is managed by them logging into Sparks mail servers to collect it. Spark then handed that responsibility off to Yahoo ( via MSN first) so the log in, mail etc is handled by yahoo, you log into pop.xtra.co.nz but the email address is an @ac.nz email address. same as Google - they manage your domain email.

 

 

 

Spark charges for this so it is not free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's even worse then. Why anyone would use the Yahoo platform for their own domain just boggles the mind. There are soooooooooooo many other great options for basic imap/pop mailboxes i just don't know why anyone would bother with 'business hub mail' or whatever that cr4p is called. IMO you are doing your client a massive disservice by helping them fix yahoo mail - I just say no, but here is what I can offer instead.

 

I use Umbrellar for people who want basic mailboxes. Priced well. Works well. And then you can also manage your domain and DNS records all in the same place. Ideally though I will push for Office 365 when people want mail on their phones etc. Better margins on that too seeing as we can sell a proper service with it - people see the value.

 

 

 

 

You know i get titchy when people tell me I'm doing my clients a dis-service. it happens a lot on GZ.

 

There are lots of historical reasons things are what they are.




chevrolux
4962 posts

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  #1667543 10-Nov-2016 16:51
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But seriously, if the client has a domain it could be used with another mail provider - one that doesn't have a bad track record of looking after their mail platform.

The only reason I can think is integrated billing. Nothing technical comes to mind what so ever! And the integrated Billing argument I just will not accept from anybody these days where it's all just automatically billed to credit cards. Makes life easier for everybody.

Oblivian
6611 posts

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  #1667584 10-Nov-2016 18:51
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Hi there,

 

 Thanks for giving us permission to move your emails, contacts and calendars over to our new email provider. We're busy getting everything sorted and you can look forward to a local, fast and safe email service in the new year. When the switch happens, there are some things you'll need to do before you can enjoy the new service. So why not make a head start and get them sorted now.

 

 For help, head to:

 

 www.spark.co.nz/emailchanges        

 

Update your settings.

 

 You'll need to update some settings to access your emails. These are the settings your mobile or tablet previously used to connect your email with Yahoo. If you know what you're doing the new IMAP settings are:

 

 Incoming: imap.xtra.co.nz, SSL On, Port 993

 

 Outgoing: send.xtra.co.nz, SSL On, Port 465

 

 Otherwise, we've got a handy online tool to step you through how to check and update your settings at spark.co.nz/emailchanges

 

 Check your bookmarks.

 

 Also, if you use any bookmarks or shortcuts to access your mailbox, you'll need to update them to xtramail.co.nz

 


Oblivian
6611 posts

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  #1667588 10-Nov-2016 18:59
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Above domain is still within spark. And appears to work fine after swapping out from yahoo impa.

 

So one can only assume Yahoo auth has now enabled redirects/MX forwarding to a current store within their control now ready for SMX to take over. 


nunz

1421 posts

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  #1668131 11-Nov-2016 15:49
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Oblivian:

 

Above domain is still within spark. And appears to work fine after swapping out from yahoo impa.

 

So one can only assume Yahoo auth has now enabled redirects/MX forwarding to a current store within their control now ready for SMX to take over. 

 

 

and again ... some clients it has not worked for - xtra / spark have confirmed that so for some (hundreds according to both spark and microsoft) the work around given is required.

 

 


mattwnz
18650 posts

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  #1668133 11-Nov-2016 15:54
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I would have thought they would still need to support the testing of a pop and smtp connection from their end. eg you give them your login details, and the servers you are using, and they can then test them. If they can't connect then, there is a problem at the server end. I can't see how they can ask people to contact microsoft for support, as microsoft would also need to use those same settings.


nunz

1421 posts

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  #1668144 11-Nov-2016 16:11
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1101:

 

nunz:

 

Spark will only tell you how to get to the web mail version of their email. If you want to set up your outlook they send you a five step process with no server names, ports or other info in it.

 

Even if they did provide the name of pop3.xtra.co.nz as a server  -it is not working for "hundreds of their clients"  <their words not mine>.

 

You need to go to Microsoft ( 0800 800 004 ) who remote log in and set up your pop to use pop.mail.yahoo.com  as your mail server and changes your username to be username@xtra.co.nz   instead of just username  MS say they are receiving hundreds of calls from Spark clients and having to do this exact process.

 

The reason Spark wont fix it themselves is they dont want people knowing you have to use pop.mail.yahoo.com and then having to change that when the final shift occurs back to what ever their pop and imap servers will be.

 

 

Really, what a lot of nonsense. Spark do need assume some modicum of intelligence , and dealing with someone ranting nonsense would make it hard for them

 

it took me 10 secs to find ALL the info needed (google)
https://www.spark.co.nz/help/internet-email/getstarted/how-to-set-up-xtra-email-for-the-first-time/

imap, pop, server settings are all there .Spark arnt trying to hide anything .
this has nothing to do with MS , so why anyone would call MS to fix a personal email issue ...

"pop.mail.yahoo.com"  . Just bad advice , that server address .
is not needed (I have xtra email on 3 devices ) I have never had the need to use that yahoo server address.

 

What can sometimes happen, is the xtra/yahoo email a/c gets locked out for whatever reason . Sometimes it simply a matter of logging in via
webmail to fix it , other times it may just start working again after a day or so of being locked out . This is rare , but does happen (or used to happen, but rarely).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mate - the arrogance of what you have said is astounding. I could wipe the floor with you when it comes to trouble shooting, as I suspect you are just a baby in comparison to the length of my experience.

 

But to ensure you get the right information - again - please actually read what is written - again!!

 

 

 

SOME USERS CAN NO LONGER USE POP3.XTRA.CO.NZ  as their mail server AS SPARK HAVE STUFFED IT UP.

 

SPARK HAVE CONFIRMED HUNDREDS OF USERS ARE AFFECTED

 

MICROSOFT HAVE CONFIRMED HUNDREDS OF USERS BEING SENT BY SPARK TO THEM.

 

 

 

so if you have now read what I have written (multiple times), and are now no longer denying what I, spark and Microsoft have said; then I suggest you stop being rude, get off your high horse and go sit in the corner until you have learned to show a little respect.

 

 


nunz

1421 posts

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  #1668146 11-Nov-2016 16:14
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chevrolux: But seriously, if the client has a domain it could be used with another mail provider - one that doesn't have a bad track record of looking after their mail platform.

The only reason I can think is integrated billing. Nothing technical comes to mind what so ever! And the integrated Billing argument I just will not accept from anybody these days where it's all just automatically billed to credit cards. Makes life easier for everybody.

 

Reasons can and may include:

 

     

  1. billing
  2. technical historical reasons
  3. the cost of changing an entire organisations infrastructure for all users, web sites, photo copiers etc,
  4. management not wanting change
  5. loyalty
  6. A built up reputation that gets content past spam filters nad other filters which may hinder legal, financial, religious, medical or other materials but now trust this organisation to send it from server X but wouldn't from server Y.

 

Have you ever tried to get yahoo / spark to let emails from your organisation go through their filters? Its a nightmare to get thme to stop black listing, greylisting or out right banning you - even when you are one of their clients.

 

 

 

 


nunz

1421 posts

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  #1668147 11-Nov-2016 16:19
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mattwnz:

 

I would have thought they would still need to support the testing of a pop and smtp connection from their end. eg you give them your login details, and the servers you are using, and they can then test them. If they can't connect then, there is a problem at the server end. I can't see how they can ask people to contact microsoft for support, as microsoft would also need to use those same settings.

 

 

Spark now refuse to do that. if it fails for you - that is tough biscuit. Their SOP is now:

 

1 - Can you log into our web mail? YES?

 

2 - Her eis the information for setting up Outlook / Eudoria / Live mail etc

 

3 - if it fails for pop or imap - got to the email app vendor to fix.

 

 

 

Our clients have had the same settings for years. two of thme sitting side by side,with the same settings but different address@client.co.nz - one works, one doesn't.

 

Why? One - that no longer works, has completed the change over doucmentation, confirmation of address, re-log into yahoo, change passwords etc - a week or two ago. Then it stopped out of the blue 10 days later. Th eother person hasn't done it and continues working. Same settings other than username and password. same mail client, same everything.   Even set up failing address on the outlook client of the one that still works - failed. again. its a password migration issue between spark / yahoo and the new servers. Only way around it until the new servers come on line is to log in as a yahoo client, using pop.mail.yahoo.com - as sparks redirects are failing for hundreds of clients.

 

 

 

BTW - as a super parinoid techie I also tried using telnet like connection - completely bypassing outlook, etc - it also succeeded for one client and failed for the other. - it is truely a spark authentication migration issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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