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809 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2096360 25-Sep-2018 18:38
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It's to be expected. Chorus invested in the fibre and want people off copper.

 

For ages everyone moaned and pointed to the likes of Korea with their fast broadband and now we have it (mostly) they whine and want to keep copper?

 

I get some are stuck, well go wireless.

 

If you can't go wireless, go satellite.

 


Yes it sucks compared with fibre and is expensive but then stuck on copper out in the sticks sucks too. I know, I have lived in one of those places.

 

 




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  # 2096365 25-Sep-2018 18:52
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pctek:

 

It's to be expected. Chorus invested in the fibre and want people off copper.

 

For ages everyone moaned and pointed to the likes of Korea with their fast broadband and now we have it (mostly) they whine and want to keep copper?

 

I get some are stuck, well go wireless.

 

If you can't go wireless, go satellite.

 


Yes it sucks compared with fibre and is expensive but then stuck on copper out in the sticks sucks too. I know, I have lived in one of those places.

 

 

 

 

Is Chorus increasing its [regulated] copper prices?  Is the differential between Chorus' copper and fibre prices changing?  Spark wants people off copper.  Its more profitable for Spark.  Hence the price increase.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2096374 25-Sep-2018 19:08
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Their costs are more than the chorus cost, and IMO at the same price the copper should cost more because there is greater diagnosis that the service provider has to do of the connection, greater chance of a fault because of the age of the network and a higher chance of complaints about slow or no performance on it.

 

I wonder how long until providers can pre-assess the likleyhood of copper problems in fiber areas and just refuse the ones that have had a fault history in that area?





Richard rich.ms

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  # 2096392 25-Sep-2018 20:03
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richms:

 

Their costs are more than the chorus cost, and IMO at the same price the copper should cost more because there is greater diagnosis that the service provider has to do of the connection, greater chance of a fault because of the age of the network and a higher chance of complaints about slow or no performance on it.

 

I wonder how long until providers can pre-assess the likleyhood of copper problems in fiber areas and just refuse the ones that have had a fault history in that area?

 

 

Some providers already do push fibre as the only option where it's available.

 

 

 

the real problem with copper is yes, it fails far more often.. but also the toolsets to resolve the issues simply are way too limited.

 

Realistically the best resolution to a fault (apart from no dsl due to say a failed joint) involves extended line tests. Folk certainly aren't too impressed to hear, ok. lets look at it in 24 hours (regardless of provider, it will always be asked... Will they actually call back?)

 

 

 

There are some smart things that can be done to ease the pain, I've born quite a few of these. but that's just assistance, till chorus expose more of their tool-set (we still have the same tools as was available 10? years ago... Dispite Vectoring, G.INP, dd-DLM all coming into play)

 

The biggest risk i've seen with copper is, where ddDLM is doing it's thing, so it pulls back the line snr between the time of customer complaining and field techs getting out and thus NFF.

 

 

 

The other issue is all the hidden costs with copper, Customer doesn't have wire maintenance and a splitter goes faulty... oh there is another issue to explain.

 

Chorus have publicly stated they are replacing their API and portals, my hope is, we will also see improvements in the toolsets available for copper.

 

 

 

 

 

All in all, Copper is very expensive to offer in reality, repeats, inaccuracy of faults, legacy systems, lack of faith in tools all add up to quite a hashmash.

 

Compare that to copper, where you can test all the way to the ONT, see it's history, have visibility over likely causes of faults (eg customer knocked power out of ont - it's actually a common fault!)

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, my heart is very much with copper technology, i love vdsl. i can't say I'm a fan of myself also paying more. But being i do have an extensive end to end understanding of copper maintenance... i get the reasoning. (not to say i wouldn't drop on fibre in a second if i could...)





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


2 posts

Wannabe Geek
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  # 2146234 16-Dec-2018 19:04
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Hi all,

 

Do you want to get some attention drawn to Spark ? Here's your chance...

 

Phone or email Spark and voice your issue about being charged $5 a month for not using an option (fibre) which is not available. My area in Auckland won't get fibre till 2020, some places 2022.

 

Next, lodge a complaint through the Telecommunications Dispute Resolution site
==> https://www.tdr.org.nz/

 

It's easy and straight forward.

 

They cannot process a "group" or "class" action - Only "Single client" complaints.

 

TDR operate under tight timelines for progressing complaints and Spark have to supply responses within ten days.

 

Now, Spark will simply refer TDR and you to their t's & c's stating that they can raise their "rental fee" (aka Penalty) any time and by any amount they choose.

 

With some 340,000 Spark "customers" still on copper, their work will be cut out.
Neither TDR nor Spark will be able to keep to legal deadlines and something will have to give.

 

That's when the media will start to take notice!

 

Spark's profit dropped by 8% this year, so they will want to avoid a mass exodus and bad publicity.

 

So - If you are not happy with Spark then you CAN do something about it - It's up to all of us.

 

Finally :
Be nice to the people at TDR because they are super nice people !

 

Go for it !!

 

 


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  # 2146237 16-Dec-2018 19:11
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LoadOfCOBOLers:

 

Hi all,

 

Do you want to get some attention drawn to Spark ? Here's your chance...

 

Phone or email Spark and voice your issue about being charged $5 a month for not using an option (fibre) which is not available. My area in Auckland won't get fibre till 2020, some places 2022.

 

Next, lodge a complaint through the Telecommunications Dispute Resolution site
==> https://www.tdr.org.nz/

 

It's easy and straight forward.

 

They cannot process a "group" or "class" action - Only "Single client" complaints.

 

TDR operate under tight timelines for progressing complaints and Spark have to supply responses within ten days.

 

Now, Spark will simply refer TDR and you to their t's & c's stating that they can raise their "rental fee" (aka Penalty) any time and by any amount they choose.

 

With some 340,000 Spark "customers" still on copper, their work will be cut out.
Neither TDR nor Spark will be able to keep to legal deadlines and something will have to give.

 

That's when the media will start to take notice!

 

Spark's profit dropped by 8% this year, so they will want to avoid a mass exodus and bad publicity.

 

So - If you are not happy with Spark then you CAN do something about it - It's up to all of us.

 

Finally :
Be nice to the people at TDR because they are super nice people !

 

Go for it !!

 

 

 

 

being charged $5 a month for not using an option (fibre). Incorrect

 

"rental fee" (aka Penalty) I bought a fridge freezer yesterday, Ill check if the receipt shows penalty

 

That's when the media will start to take notice!   If its accurate

 

Have your beers run out yet??  :-)

 

 

 

 


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  # 2146239 16-Dec-2018 19:15
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@LoadOfCOBOLers So even if 1% of those customers do that, that's 3400 complaints about something Spark are entitled to do because it's in the contract, wasting TDR's time and wasting Spark's time. They'll have to recoup the cost of dealing with them by adding an additional levy ;-)

 

If you feel that strongly, it's probably a better idea to simply change providers.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2146241 16-Dec-2018 19:25
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LoadOfCOBOLers:

 

Hi all,

 

Do you want to get some attention drawn to Spark ? Here's your chance...

 

Phone or email Spark and voice your issue about being charged $5 a month for not using an option (fibre) which is not available. My area in Auckland won't get fibre till 2020, some places 2022.

 

Next, lodge a complaint through the Telecommunications Dispute Resolution site
==> https://www.tdr.org.nz/

 

It's easy and straight forward.

 

They cannot process a "group" or "class" action - Only "Single client" complaints.

 

TDR operate under tight timelines for progressing complaints and Spark have to supply responses within ten days.

 

Now, Spark will simply refer TDR and you to their t's & c's stating that they can raise their "rental fee" (aka Penalty) any time and by any amount they choose.

 

With some 340,000 Spark "customers" still on copper, their work will be cut out.
Neither TDR nor Spark will be able to keep to legal deadlines and something will have to give.

 

That's when the media will start to take notice!

 

Spark's profit dropped by 8% this year, so they will want to avoid a mass exodus and bad publicity.

 

So - If you are not happy with Spark then you CAN do something about it - It's up to all of us.

 

Finally :
Be nice to the people at TDR because they are super nice people !

 

Go for it !!

 

 

 

 

Before you make waste your time trying this I suggest you familiarise yourself with what the TDR can and can't rule on. Hint - pricing tops that list.

 

Even if you did decide to waste your own time lodging a complaint (remembering you're not wasting anybody else's time as their job at to look at complaints - it's only your time being wasted filling in the forms and detailing your dispute and why you have decided Spark didn't provide a satisfactory resolution to your complaint with them which must be lodged first) you would very likely get a very quick response pointing out there is actually no issue worth looking into.

 

I can't see how their work would be cut out even if you managed to get 340,000 people to complain. They'd just need to send the same response 340,000 times.

 

If you're so unhappy with Spark then just move before your blood pressure rises too much thinking about the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2146243 16-Dec-2018 19:33
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Bet they will be a 1 post wonder never to be seen again

John

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  # 2146244 16-Dec-2018 19:37
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It's a one post account I'm sure...

But if your unhappy due to the increase your welcome to leave and go elsewhere.

Vodafone have also recently increased pricing but not only on copper like spark.


Given we are months since it changed I'd say you must have ignored the notifications.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


5572 posts

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  # 2146246 16-Dec-2018 19:40
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As @Linux points out

 

 

TDR can't consider: 

 

  • A telecommunications company's pricing (except where what is billed differs from pricing information provided during the sales process)

Source https://www.tdr.org.nz/making-a-complaint/types-of-disputes-covered

 

 


2 posts

Wannabe Geek
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  # 2146610 17-Dec-2018 16:30
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Spark has the option of charging only those that CHOOSE not to switch to fibre rather than including the tens of thousands that have to wait a couple more years - I'm in Auckland city and will not get fibre until late 2019 or early 2020...
"Penalty" - A disadvantage caused by another's action.

 


Have your Red Bulls worn off yet ? 


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  # 2146612 17-Dec-2018 16:37
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LoadOfCOBOLers:

 

Spark has the option of charging only those that CHOOSE not to switch to fibre rather than including the tens of thousands that have to wait a couple more years - I'm in Auckland city and will not get fibre until late 2019 or early 2020...
"Penalty" - A disadvantage caused by another's action.

 


Have your Red Bulls worn off yet ? 

 

 

i'd recommend you go read the articles about it.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/106843633/spark-ups-price-of-copper-broadband-by-5-a-month

 

 

 

It's quite simple really. this isn't a price rise to push people onto fibre, It's about the costs to support the product.

 

As such, this was very deliberately targeted at copper customers only.

 

 

 

It's no secret, the average copper customer will regularly have faults, especially at wet months.

 

While fibre, will likely have faults when it's first installed and customers are being on-boarded but otherwise be rock solid.

 

 

 

Vodafone have recently done the same, although targeting all access types.

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=40&topicid=243372

 

 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


5572 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2146613 17-Dec-2018 16:47
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LoadOfCOBOLers:[snip]
Have your Red Bulls worn off yet ? 

 

 

Don't understand your comment.




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  # 2146626 17-Dec-2018 16:57
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hio77:

 

 

 

i'd recommend you go read the articles about it.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/106843633/spark-ups-price-of-copper-broadband-by-5-a-month

 

 

 

It's quite simple really. this isn't a price rise to push people onto fibre, It's about the costs to support the product.

 

As such, this was very deliberately targeted at copper customers only.

 

 

 

It's no secret, the average copper customer will regularly have faults, especially at wet months.

 

While fibre, will likely have faults when it's first installed and customers are being on-boarded but otherwise be rock solid.

 

 

 

Vodafone have recently done the same, although targeting all access types.

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=40&topicid=243372

 

 

 

 

If service providers in other industries push their prices up by multiples of CPI and cited cost pressures they would get lambasted for being inefficient and profiteering.  Spark is not short on profits (either quantum or vs WACC), is making considerable cost savings from migrating fibre customers and wireless broadband (as stated by your CEO) and yet pushes up prices.

 

Make cost savings elsewhere and not rort customers by lifting prices.   Inexcusable.  Especially for those with no alternative to their copper connections.  Now Vodafone are price following (cos thats an easy game) and the industry benefits at the expense of the consumer.


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