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962 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2488636 21-May-2020 11:32
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Rikkitic:

 

Anyone with a driver's license can use a car. People don't normally have to be able to install engine components and tune it before they can drive it. 

 

Internet technology can be confusing for anyone without specialist knowledge, but older people generally have bigger problems if things don't work or they have to set something up. Especially if they have no prior experience with this kind of thing. Because Internet access has now pretty much become a necessity, just like a phone, those who do not understand what a LAN cable is have every right to expect full support when they find themselves forced to buy into this technology. It is not enough for a company to just blithely say here is your modem, go figure it out or find a relative to do it for you.

 

 

 

 

My 65 year old father came up to stay with me for a week recently. He had a choice between a 2019 Corolla and a 2010 Corolla. He drove the newer one twice and then refused to. Didn't like the auto handbrake and various sensors beeping and telling him what to do. What is Toyota supposed to do? I remember the instructions for about ten seconds when I pick up a new car. 

 

I had to google how to turn the speed limit reminder person off. I've even had rental cars where some setting is buried in the menu system to change. So I don't think they're targeting the elderly/non tech savvy with modern cars either. 

 

And to be fair, the last modem I got had pretty clear instructions on big fold out piece of durable paper. The biggest issue I have is when other people set things up, is the access to the device. For example I have my parent's gmail and iCloud settings (both mid sixties), and I have my 90 ish grandmother's iCloud settings as well. Hers was previously set up in someone in the local tech shop's name!

 

I don't know what the real solution is for that last one. But that said, how many 90 year olds are walking in and buying a $1000 iPhone/Pad? In my experience it's usually a hand me down or a gift. 


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2488653 21-May-2020 12:03
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Maybe cars are not the best example since everything is being stuffed with chips these days. I was just using what was presented to me. 

 

Cars are an interesting case. New cars usually come with adequate documentation and demonstrations, but I do not enjoy a new car income so all my cars have been through many owners and I have never, ever, seen a used car with the owner's manual still in the pocket. Every car I have ever possessed has been a black box mystery to me, with things I can't turn off and things I have never discovered the purpose of. This can sometimes be quite annoying, but so far none of it has ever actually prevented me from operating the car. With newer ones I would not be so sure. Manufacturers seem obsessed with cramming all kinds of unnecessary gadgetry into their products, which just complicates things that used to be fairly straightforward. Or maybe that is just an old person's complaint.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #2488715 21-May-2020 13:46
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Rikkitic:

 

Cars are an interesting case. New cars usually come with adequate documentation and demonstrations, but I do not enjoy a new car income so all my cars have been through many owners and I have never, ever, seen a used car with the owner's manual still in the pocket.

 


I have, my current car came complete with Owner's Manual and Service Record book

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

Both in Japanese
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  #2488727 21-May-2020 14:03
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Rikkitic:

 

Internet technology can be confusing for anyone without specialist knowledge, but older people generally have bigger problems if things don't work or they have to set something up. Especially if they have no prior experience with this kind of thing. Because Internet access has now pretty much become a necessity, just like a phone, those who do not understand what a LAN cable is have every right to expect full support when they find themselves forced to buy into this technology. It is not enough for a company to just blithely say here is your modem, go figure it out or find a relative to do it for you.

 

 

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope and nope.

 

Companies are absolutely free to package their products as they see fit. All they are required to do is comply with the laws of fair trading and other relevant laws like the CGA. No one has a god given right to access telecommunications services. If the buyer needs assistance that are over and above that normally provided by the company and such assistance is not essential for the company to discharge their scope of services promised to the buyer (e.g. just providing a working phone line), it's up to the buyer to procure that assistance elsewhere. Can a few of you please stop just ganging up on people who point out such simple realities and quit the ad hominem attacks about your interlocutor being ageist and the like? If you can't accept that mainstream companies don't want to unduly burden their usual customer base with the disproportionate costs to service minority case needs, too bad.

 

 


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  #2488752 21-May-2020 14:27
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dejadeadnz:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Internet technology can be confusing for anyone without specialist knowledge, but older people generally have bigger problems if things don't work or they have to set something up. Especially if they have no prior experience with this kind of thing. Because Internet access has now pretty much become a necessity, just like a phone, those who do not understand what a LAN cable is have every right to expect full support when they find themselves forced to buy into this technology. It is not enough for a company to just blithely say here is your modem, go figure it out or find a relative to do it for you.

 

 

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope and nope.

 

Companies are absolutely free to package their products as they see fit. All they are required to do is comply with the laws of fair trading and other relevant laws like the CGA. No one has a god given right to access telecommunications services. If the buyer needs assistance that are over and above that normally provided by the company and such assistance is not essential for the company to discharge their scope of services promised to the buyer (e.g. just providing a working phone line), it's up to the buyer to procure that assistance elsewhere. Can a few of you please stop just ganging up on people who point out such simple realities and quit the ad hominem attacks about your interlocutor being ageist and the like? If you can't accept that mainstream companies don't want to unduly burden their usual customer base with the disproportionate costs to service minority case needs, too bad.

 

 

 

 

So perhaps there is room for no frills (eg Skinny/Bigpipe) and full service (eg Spark or even a cut above again) to exist? So that those who want plug and play, fix it yourself, minimal service at low cost can get it, and those who want to (or need to) pay for handholding can also get it?





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  #2488787 21-May-2020 15:37
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antonknee:

 

So perhaps there is room for no frills (eg Skinny/Bigpipe) and full service (eg Spark or even a cut above again) to exist? So that those who want plug and play, fix it yourself, minimal service at low cost can get it, and those who want to (or need to) pay for handholding can also get it?

 

 

And thats whats there now :-)

 

If ANYONE cant figure out tech, they need to PAY someone to do that for them.
Again, this is what happens now.

 

Age is irrelevant. If you cant cope with new tech, someone needs to sort it out for you , either a paid service or their family.

 

Their is sometime an attitude rather than an age issue
Eg , oldie who absolutely refused to pay $15 for IPS's fibre router , so was no way to connect him to the ONT . Attitude, not age
Oldie who doesnt have email or a PC, so needed help to create a CV (but no way to send it, or get replies) : attitude ( Luddite ) , job would require PC skills.

Yes ISPs should be able to recommend the best internet package , but the ISP may not be able to get past bloody mindedness or total lack of any relevant knowledge
Yes ISPs can stuff things up . Yes people have issues with new ISP connections & their PC.
All thats required is calling a PC Tech to come onsite & sort it out . Thats what happens now .

 

No need for ISPs to hand hold those with zero tech skills, as that will never work out .
Age is irrelevant if you dont have the tech skills you need to get someone who has. Thats not the job of ISPs

Age is irrelevant as it's not just the oldies who have these exact issues .


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  #2488794 21-May-2020 15:48
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Rikkitic:

 

Maybe cars are not the best example since everything is being stuffed with chips these days. I was just using what was presented to me. 

 

Cars are an interesting case. New cars usually come with adequate documentation and demonstrations, but I do not enjoy a new car income so all my cars have been through many owners and I have never, ever, seen a used car with the owner's manual still in the pocket. Every car I have ever possessed has been a black box mystery to me, with things I can't turn off and things I have never discovered the purpose of. This can sometimes be quite annoying, but so far none of it has ever actually prevented me from operating the car. With newer ones I would not be so sure. Manufacturers seem obsessed with cramming all kinds of unnecessary gadgetry into their products, which just complicates things that used to be fairly straightforward. Or maybe that is just an old person's complaint.

 

 

I chose that example for a specific reason - what you have just cited. Buying a car isn't simple and it never has been. There are lots of choices and no sensible person would expect to buy one without some knowledge of what they were buying. If they don't have that knowledge they ask friends, family or pay someone to help them. 

 

ISPs are in the business of providing what the market will pay for - if they don't they go bust. The market doesn't pay for service as what they are providing is a commodity. Providing comprehensive individualised service isn't possible at $60-100 a month. It is just not possible.

 

The justice of that is fairly irrelevant as it won't change. There is no driver for it to change. ISPs can't make more money or get significant market share by offering this, so they don't. They will offer a fairly basic service so if more is required it needs to be paid for. It is what it is.


 
 
 
 


gzt

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  #2488829 21-May-2020 16:57
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mudguard: My 65 year old father came up to stay with me for a week recently. He had a choice between a 2019 Corolla and a 2010 Corolla. He drove the newer one twice and then refused to. Didn't like the auto handbrake and various sensors beeping and telling him what to do. What is Toyota supposed to do? I remember the instructions for about ten seconds when I pick up a new car.

Just curious was this an import or NZ new? I thought most NZ new had the crazy stuff turned off by default for the local market.

962 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2488866 21-May-2020 18:16
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gzt:
mudguard: My 65 year old father came up to stay with me for a week recently. He had a choice between a 2019 Corolla and a 2010 Corolla. He drove the newer one twice and then refused to. Didn't like the auto handbrake and various sensors beeping and telling him what to do. What is Toyota supposed to do? I remember the instructions for about ten seconds when I pick up a new car.

Just curious was this an import or NZ new? I thought most NZ new had the crazy stuff turned off by default for the local market.

 

 

 

Both NZ new cars. There's a bit of annoying stuff. And a few Toyotaisms too, like bluetooth connections being under settings rather than phone, well on my old Camry.


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