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233 posts

Master Geek


  #2519889 9-Jul-2020 10:48
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Weird how, in my experience, Spark and BigPipe are so different though.


'That VDSL Cat'
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  #2519891 9-Jul-2020 10:50
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JonoNZ:

 

Weird how, in my experience, Spark and BigPipe are so different though.

 

 

Many bigpipe connections are terminated in auckland, much of this comes back to some limitations in chorus's network to support sharing of services.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek

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  #2519892 9-Jul-2020 10:51
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Just to add fuel to the fire debate. Spark connection in Dunedin. Lovin my first hop.






233 posts

Master Geek


  #2519894 9-Jul-2020 10:54
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hio77:

 

JonoNZ:

 

Weird how, in my experience, Spark and BigPipe are so different though.

 

 

Many bigpipe connections are terminated in auckland, much of this comes back to some limitations in chorus's network to support sharing of services.

 

 

 

 

So you reckon switching to Spark would likely see this 'problem' go away?


12 posts

Geek


  #2519910 9-Jul-2020 11:08
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hio77:

 

as a gamer, i get it. but It's also just physics and networks.

 

 

 

nomatter your provider, there is always going to be somewhere that has worse latency than another provider due to a peering desision.

 

Providers have to balance so many thing, you could go and engineer a network for latency, but then have you accounted for being a lossless path? a fast path?

 

 

 

to 99% of people a few ms of latency is hardly going to cause issues, but your video loading buffering because it travels a congested path is much more important...

 

 

 

As a gamer, 13ms makes next to no differance, i'll take 13ms over having even 0.1% packetloss.

 

So many game engines expect no packetloss, particularly if you say tune the lerp out of source engine, then you really do feel those missing packets. not the extra 1 frame of latency.

 

 

 

 

Ultimately everything boils down to physics, and I accept latency will vary.  But that it's so egregious over the first couple of hops is hard to accept in light of all previous experience.

 

Hadn't thought about packetloss, good point you're right as it relates to gaming, but I wasn't experiencing packetloss on the fakefibre connection.

 

So what are your first hops like?  If I can find enough similarly poor examples I'll accept it as normal - this is my first first hand experience of consumer fibre in NZ.


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  #2519911 9-Jul-2020 11:09
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Hi, just as a refernce I am on Spark, which is the same network as BP, my pppoe session shows me connected to a BNG at Porirua exchange (I am in Waitarere just north of Levin), seems you do have an excessive first hop

 

mtr -r 116.251.192.212
Start: Thu Jul  9 11:01:09 2020
HOST: TeRopata                         Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
  1.|-- 192.168.242.254                  0.0%    10    0.3   0.2   0.2   0.3   0.0
  2.|-- 125-239-246-1-adsl.sparkb  0.0%    10    2.1   3.7   1.9   5.3   1.1
  3.|-- 122.56.113.7                      90.0%    10   13.1  13.1  13.1  13.1   0.0
  4.|-- 122.56.113.6                        0.0%    10   13.2  13.4  11.5  14.9   1.0
  5.|-- ge-2-0-0-906.ie2.telstrac     0.0%    10   23.5  14.7  11.8  23.5   3.2
  6.|-- 203.97.59.122                     0.0%    10   16.3  15.5  12.6  20.7   2.6
  7.|-- et-0-0-3.orb-p-1.tpisp.ne     0.0%    10   15.5  19.9  15.5  39.9   7.3
  8.|-- et-0-0-2.cle-ar-1.tpisp.n      0.0%    10   16.2  17.0  15.6  19.0   0.9
  9.|-- et-0-0-8.kap-p-2.tpisp.ne     0.0%    10   18.0  26.2  15.3  83.3  21.6
 10.|-- lo0-2.kap-bng-6.tpisp.net    0.0%    10   17.7  17.5  15.5  22.2   1.9
 11.|-- ip-116-251-192-212.kinect  0.0%    10   21.5  20.0  18.3  21.5   0.9

 

Cyril


12 posts

Geek


#2519914 9-Jul-2020 11:11
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djtOtago:

 

Just to add fuel to the fire debate. Spark connection in Dunedin. Lovin my first hop.

 

LOL! 🤣  Thanks for the data point 👍


 
 
 
 


12 posts

Geek


  #2519916 9-Jul-2020 11:17
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cyril7:

 

Hi, just as a refernce I am on Spark, which is the same network as BP, my pppoe session shows me connected to a BNG at Porirua exchange (I am in Waitarere just north of Levin), seems you do have an excessive first hop

 

 

Wow, we're both north of Porirua, you're more than twice as far away.

 

Thanks, I'll see if I can get similar info out of a PPoE session later.


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  #2519980 9-Jul-2020 11:44
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EnragedStoat:

 

2.  Ok.  Was a different route without a block the first day or so after going live.  Latency end to end is mostly what I'm concerned with and that mostly seems fine (see 4 below).  If priorities cause such a consistent delay over such a small footprint of the route perhaps there's something more fundamental in play.

 

 

 

I was just using one server as an example.  How does your first hop look?

 

 

Ignore the latency of the intermediate hops. The routers place more priority on routing traffic than replying to an ICMP ping so a high response time doesn't mean actual traffic is delayed.

 

As mentioned, your first hop is higher because it will be to Auckland. May or may not be an issue depending on the exact route to destination. Of course, those routes change all the time, so the lowest latency ISP to a particular server may change this week to next.


629 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2520001 9-Jul-2020 12:15
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hio77:

 

JonoNZ:

 

Weird how, in my experience, Spark and BigPipe are so different though.

 

 

Many bigpipe connections are terminated in auckland, much of this comes back to some limitations in chorus's network to support sharing of services.

 

 

If you have a static IP (As I do) its layer2 to Auckland, otherwise its layer 2 to the nearest handover


12 posts

Geek


  #2520015 9-Jul-2020 12:55
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nztim:

 

If you have a static IP (As I do) its layer2 to Auckland, otherwise its layer 2 to the nearest handover

 

 

Ah, that would explain some things.  Thanks, I have static IP also.


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Ultimate Geek

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  #2520224 9-Jul-2020 18:17
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EnragedStoat:

 

Ah, that would explain some things.  Thanks, I have static IP also.

 

 

Wired (not wireless) to my router I am between 2-5ms to my next hop in Auckland (from my home in Wellington)

 

 

C:\Users\lawt>ping 125.236.192.9

 

Pinging 125.236.192.9 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 125.236.192.9: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
Reply from 125.236.192.9: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=64
Reply from 125.236.192.9: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=64
Reply from 125.236.192.9: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64

 

 

That's is not that bad latency, it is simply not practical for RSPs to add a bunch of /32 routes for people on static IPs to the local handover, and, if they move to an area with a different handover go change that route table again, it would be an administrative nightmare

 

part of the parcel with having a Static IP




233 posts

Master Geek


  #2520316 9-Jul-2020 20:15
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Both my connections (Auckland on Spark, Napier on BigPipe) have static IPs.

 

Thanks for the contributions everyone, I’ll be honest, I feel slightly vindicated that something was up, I’m not saying it’s serious but I did notice a difference and all I ever wanted to do was understand why.


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  #2520318 9-Jul-2020 20:26
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JonoNZ:

Both my connections (Auckland on Spark, Napier on BigPipe) have static IPs.


Thanks for the contributions everyone, I’ll be honest, I feel slightly vindicated that something was up, I’m not saying it’s serious but I did notice a difference and all I ever wanted to do was understand why.


Kinda was the key call-out we needed to know to link it. Static IP's aren't all that common across the entire user base.

Many other things could create the same thing you were seeing :)




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 


738 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2520330 9-Jul-2020 20:56
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nztim:

 

If you have a static IP (As I do) its layer2 to Auckland, otherwise its layer 2 to the nearest handover

 

 

 

 

That is not correct.  Every service, static or dynamic IP is terminated at the BNG closest (as the network is built, not as the crow flies) to them.

 

You should have a very low latency on Fibre to your BNG no matter what category of IP you have.  

 

Yes Static IP does have some minor differences with it due to how the routing works - but it should not result in noticeably worse performance.





My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.


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