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johnr
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  #180202 25-Nov-2008 13:56
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sbiddle:

NonprayingMantis:
juha: You can't put 3G voice calls over EV-DO though... although I have used both Skype and VoIP over it just fine.



So what?   

3G provides no material benefit for voice over 2G/2.5G anyway.  


It does actually, at least when you're talking about WCDMA. That offers significantly higher network capacity than GSM and also offers AMR as the defacto voice codec although Vodafone have now deployed AMR on their GSM network but the majority of GSM operators have not done this.





Vodafone NZ does not have AMR on the 2G network 3G yes,

Capacity on 2G has been increased by more TRXs on cells or 1800 deployed

John

 
 
 

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juha
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  #180204 25-Nov-2008 14:04
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That brings me to a question about voice calls... how do you tell if the call goes over 2G/3G? When the indicator switches to GPRS from UMTS/HSDPA (2G) or stays on it (for 3G calls)?




sbiddle
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  #180208 25-Nov-2008 14:19
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Pretty much the easiest way is to look at the indicator on your phone. If it has a 3G logo you're using 3G if it doesn't your using GSM.

In progress call handover from 3G -> GSM is a real issue, I find my phone very frequently dropping back to GSM during a call. The difference between the AMR codec used on WCDMA and the FR used in GSM is very obvious so you can hear when this happens.

I stand corrected on the AMR for GSM as well, Vodafone did switch most GSM calls to HR (half rate) during their 900MHz WCDMA rollout and then trialled AMR but have gone back to standard FR for GSM.



cokemaster
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  #180235 25-Nov-2008 16:38
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Wikipedia says:
1xRTT officially qualifies as 3G technology, but it is considered by some to be a 2.5G (or sometimes 2.75G) technology. This allows it to be deployed in 2G spectrum in some countries that limit 3G systems to certain bands.


Telecoms website states:
We cover around 97% of the places New Zealanders live, work and play.


Is 1X '3G'? You decide!




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NonprayingMantis
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  #180239 25-Nov-2008 16:57
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cokemaster: Wikipedia says:
1xRTT officially qualifies as 3G technology, but it is considered by some to be a 2.5G (or sometimes 2.75G) technology. This allows it to be deployed in 2G spectrum in some countries that limit 3G systems to certain bands.


Telecoms website states:
We cover around 97% of the places New Zealanders live, work and play.


Is 1X '3G'? You decide!


Have you even bothered to read the thread?
  EVDO is 3G, and Telecom’s EVDO network covers >80% of the country. (the 97% coverage is referring to the 1xRTT)   Voda’s 3G coverage is somewhere around 70% coverage according to the most recent quote I can find.

therfore Telecom's 3G network has better coverage than Voda's, even when you take out the 2.5G coverage.



juha
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  #180241 25-Nov-2008 17:03
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cokemaster: Wikipedia says:
1xRTT officially qualifies as 3G technology, but it is considered by some to be a 2.5G (or sometimes 2.75G) technology. This allows it to be deployed in 2G spectrum in some countries that limit 3G systems to certain bands.


Telecoms website states:
We cover around 97% of the places New Zealanders live, work and play.


Is 1X '3G'? You decide!

Yes, that's where it gets tricky... thanks Mobile Telephony Industry for muddling things like that. From what I can tell, even CDMAone was said to be 3G at some point. The UMTS world seems to consider 384kbit/s being minimum for 3G but there is no equivalent definition for CDMA 2000 1xRTT. 




juha
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  #180242 25-Nov-2008 17:05
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NonprayingMantis: 

Have you even bothered to read the thread?
EVDO is 3G, and Telecom’s EVDO network covers >80% of the country. (the 97% coverage is referring to the 1xRTT)   Voda’s 3G coverage is somewhere around 70% coverage according to the most recent quote I can find.

therfore Telecom's 3G network has better coverage than Voda's, even when you take out the 2.5G coverage.



Be nice to Cokey. He knows his stuff.






nzbnw
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  #180243 25-Nov-2008 17:06
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NonprayingMantis:
cokemaster: Wikipedia says:
1xRTT officially qualifies as 3G technology, but it is considered by some to be a 2.5G (or sometimes 2.75G) technology. This allows it to be deployed in 2G spectrum in some countries that limit 3G systems to certain bands.


Telecoms website states:
We cover around 97% of the places New Zealanders live, work and play.


Is 1X '3G'? You decide!


Have you even bothered to read the thread?
  EVDO is 3G, and Telecom’s EVDO network covers >80% of the country. (the 97% coverage is referring to the 1xRTT)   Voda’s 3G coverage is somewhere around 70% coverage according to the most recent quote I can find.

therfore Telecom's 3G network has better coverage than Voda's, even when you take out the 2.5G coverage.




What cokemaster is saying is technically Telecom's CDMA network is '3G', and there for 97% of the population is served by this 3G network irrespective of EVDO coverage.

Of course many don't regard CDMA 1X as a 3G network.

nzbnw








paradoxsm
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  #180244 25-Nov-2008 17:25
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And EVDO data seems to extend far beyond the "official" coverage, and I'd much rather drop to 1X data rates than GRPS... sloooow.

bbman
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  #180246 25-Nov-2008 17:30
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Totally, i have a heap of users 40+KM away from a site getting 400 -600Kbps average speeds on Rev A with a YAGI and wilson direct connect booster (opps did i say that)

EVDO is brilliant at long distances and is currently the best rural broadband option for most people in coverage when compared to Farm side. W850 and W900 will be better but thats some time away though





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UFB fibre, Rural fibre on EA networks, RBI wireless, Ruralnet & Ultra wireless, wireless networks


juha
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  #180253 25-Nov-2008 17:54
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bbman: Totally, i have a heap of users 40+KM away from a site getting 400 -600Kbps average speeds on Rev A with a YAGI and wilson direct connect booster (opps did i say that)

EVDO is brilliant at long distances and is currently the best rural broadband option for most people in coverage when compared to Farm side. W850 and W900 will be better but thats some time away though

Agreed about EV-DO out in the sticks - it's totally impressive to get 500kbit/s in the middle of nowhere, and 1xRTT doesn't suck anywhere near as much as GPRS.
Be interesting to see if Telecom can better EV-DO with W850. Would like to try 900MHz WCDMA/HSPA too.




bbman
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  #180321 25-Nov-2008 22:29
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juha:
bbman: Totally, i have a heap of users 40+KM away from a site getting 400 -600Kbps average speeds on Rev A with a YAGI and wilson direct connect booster (opps did i say that)

EVDO is brilliant at long distances and is currently the best rural broadband option for most people in coverage when compared to Farm side. W850 and W900 will be better but thats some time away though

Agreed about EV-DO out in the sticks - it's totally impressive to get 500kbit/s in the middle of nowhere, and 1xRTT doesn't suck anywhere near as much as GPRS.
Be interesting to see if Telecom can better EV-DO with W850. Would like to try 900MHz WCDMA/HSPA too.


I agree but the key here is 97% coverage or all cell sites 3G w850 so right now very few rural sites are EVDO capable but due to medium sized towns having EVDO and the fact that EVDO signal can penetrate further we are getting good rural results. Offering full foot print 3g rather than the current status quo will be huge, Telecom for the first time have said they see this as rural broadband offering, I have been talking that up forever...good they have caught on !

I am looking forward to the opportunities for business coming towards June next year and with both networks bringing a nationwide 3G offering areas where w850 doesnt have coverage & w900 does there is a solution.





www.ultimatebroadband.co.nz 
Delivering better broadband services

UFB fibre, Rural fibre on EA networks, RBI wireless, Ruralnet & Ultra wireless, wireless networks


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