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sbiddle
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  #2728712 14-Jun-2021 20:10
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Oblivian:

 

SomeoneSomewhere:

 

CDMA wasn't that long ago; 2012: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/telecom-nz-set-for-cdma-switch-off-310329

 

300k users a few months before switchoff.

 

If you send the message down one channel once or twice, sure. If you send it through every channel including the front cover of the local paper, it's a lot more likely people will take it seriously.

 

 

Like, Jan. And then most the papers/online articles In February?

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124317060/first-copper-phone-services-to-be-cut-from-september-under-chorus-plan

 

 

Stories like the Stuff one are quite confusing and poorly written. Lots of people still don't understand the difference between the discontinuation of copper xDSL services by Chorus (which will start as a trial later this year) and the discontinuation of Spark POTS services which started last December with the first two exchanges, and is currently ramping up with a big list of areas for the September cutoff which is the next group.

 

 


nztim
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  #2728716 14-Jun-2021 20:17
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snnet:

 

So when copper is killed off and none of these services are available....... I suppose it would be in the minority, but still a bit annoying for those who are on dsl now potentially having none of that access pretty soon

 

 

Where there is no fibre available Chorus copper CANNOT be switched off, the Commerce Commission copper withdrawal code strictly prohibits it

 

However when the NEAX switch in a specific area gets shutdown RSPs have several methods of delivering voice produts

 

1. Voice over the ATA port of a xDSL modem

 

2. Voice over an ATA PORT on an FWA modem

 

3. Baseband IP

 

Most RSPs wont touch option 3 and will go for option 1 or 2 (I listed 3 RSPs on page one which do offer option 3) - Including in Fibre areas until such time as chorus withdraws the local cabinet in that area





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nztim
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  #2728718 14-Jun-2021 20:19
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sbiddle:

 

Stories like the Stuff one are quite confusing and poorly written. Lots of people still don't understand the difference between the discontinuation of copper xDSL services by Chorus (which will start as a trial later this year) and the discontinuation of Spark POTS services which started last December with the first two exchanges, and is currently ramping up with a big list of areas for the September cutoff which is the next group.

 

 

Sparks decision to withdraw copper broadband along with the NEAX didn't help the situation clouding people with misinformation





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SomeoneSomewhere
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  #2728720 14-Jun-2021 20:20
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snnet:

 

So far the people i've encountered getting these modems it's generally come with a knock at the door - so they are doing that at least in some areas, not just sending a package out to everyone

 

I do wonder though what will happen with those who can't get fibre, have zero cellphone coverage even with an aerial for a 4g modem but have a perfectly good copper line... I guess they'll be forced onto something like starlink or similar 

 

 

It's only the NEAX exchanges that are being shut down. The copper loop is staying in areas not served by fibre, and probably staying for a bit longer even in fibre supported areas.

 

That means the options are:

 

  • Migrate to UFB+VoIP
  • Migrate to DSL+VoIP (where copper remains; copper cannot be disconnected without fibre availability)
  • Migrate to a VoIP card in the cabinet with the DSL cards, so customer won't see any significant difference (where copper remains; copper cannot be disconnected without fibre availability)
  • Migrate to 4G

Most of these require the ISP/phone provider to actually set something up, though, not just pay Spark the $20/month or whatever it is to use their gear. I'm not sure if Chorus or Spark was handling the idea of new VoIP line cards and where that went.


Oblivian
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  #2728802 14-Jun-2021 21:01
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SomeoneSomewhere:

 

  • Migrate to a VoIP card in the cabinet with the DSL cards, so customer won't see any significant difference (where copper remains; copper cannot be disconnected without fibre availability)
  • Migrate to 4G

Most of these require the ISP/phone provider to actually set something up, though, not just pay Spark the $20/month or whatever it is to use their gear. I'm not sure if Chorus or Spark was handling the idea of new VoIP line cards and where that went.

 

 

Ended up on VoIP cards in the street box in a few new-ish cabinetised places in Christchurch after the quakes. After they tried repairing the stretched copper 2x from new brighton exchange and found more breaks they threw in the towel, checked the fibre had stood up and got some cards in. Then jumpered us all from the krone box nearby onto the cabinet cards.

 

So may be easier down here. Not so much elsewhere where they moved the kit to the exchange or don't have the larger cabs?


SomeoneSomewhere
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  #2728810 14-Jun-2021 21:10
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Oblivian:

 

SomeoneSomewhere:

 

  • Migrate to a VoIP card in the cabinet with the DSL cards, so customer won't see any significant difference (where copper remains; copper cannot be disconnected without fibre availability)
  • Migrate to 4G

Most of these require the ISP/phone provider to actually set something up, though, not just pay Spark the $20/month or whatever it is to use their gear. I'm not sure if Chorus or Spark was handling the idea of new VoIP line cards and where that went.

 

 

Ended up on VoIP cards in the street box in a few new-ish cabinetised places in Christchurch after the quakes. After they tried repairing the stretched copper 2x from new brighton exchange and found more breaks they threw in the towel, checked the fibre had stood up and got some cards in. Then jumpered us all from the krone box nearby onto the cabinet cards.

 

So may be easier down here. Not so much elsewhere where they moved the kit to the exchange or don't have the larger cabs?

 

 

I don't know the figures, but it's probably down to the number of customers. For a cabinet in a no-fibre area, chances are nearly every line was in use and half or more had PSTN service. Any unused ports would have been a rounding error.

 

On the other hand, nowadays a cabinet might only have 5-10 phone customers not moving to 4G/fibre, out of, IDK, 1000 connections? If the phone lines come in a card of 48, that's a lot of unused ports for a very small number of customers.


snnet
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  #2728813 14-Jun-2021 21:20
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Thanks guys, cleared it up for me. I was definitely under the impression copper was being turned off everywhere including non-fibre areas and non viable FWA areas. Pleased to hear it shouldn't be done at least for a while yet




sbiddle
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  #2728827 14-Jun-2021 21:53
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snnet:

 

Thanks guys, cleared it up for me. I was definitely under the impression copper was being turned off everywhere including non-fibre areas and non viable FWA areas. Pleased to hear it shouldn't be done at least for a while yet

 

 

Wouldn't surprise me to see 10+ years left before copper is gone in many areas.

 

 

 

 


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  #2728831 14-Jun-2021 22:02
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sbiddle:

snnet:


Thanks guys, cleared it up for me. I was definitely under the impression copper was being turned off everywhere including non-fibre areas and non viable FWA areas. Pleased to hear it shouldn't be done at least for a while yet



Wouldn't surprise me to see 10+ years left before copper is gone in many areas.


 


 



Further fibre rollout or further regulation change could very well happen




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quickymart
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  #2728840 14-Jun-2021 22:10
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My Mum lives in exactly the situation described - she has a good, reliable copper landline. Fibre will never see the light of day at her place unless she pays for it. Her DSL is slow (to me), she only gets about 5-10 Mb/s, although for her that's absolutely fine. Her cellphone reception is poor - she has to stand outside to get any signal.

 

I hope they don't try and move her to 4G, as the signal at her house is really bad, and she likes the reliability of her copper line. Suresignal or wifi calling isn't an option either.


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  #2728855 14-Jun-2021 23:35
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For those that do Voice only, provided that you have good 4G service - Voice over Fixed wireless is a reasonably good solution.  I understand that voice packets are prioritized over Fixed wireless so local cell congestion should impact them less.  

 

Sure it doesn't use the copper lead in and sure it doesn't have UPS back up (although many homes with landlines use mains powered cordless phones), but the experience is pretty much plug and play. You get caller ID and a few other goodies out of the box and if you get the voice packs, they really kill the old copper 'smartphone' addons in terms of value. My folks were on wireless BB until their broadband demands outgrew wireless bb (no unplan) and fibre came out.

 

Of course, you can get something cheaper if you go via the mobile/2Talk/Hero route... but then you need to set up the dialing plans, ATA's or teach the olds how to use a mobile. I think that they do need to be clear in their communications however...





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RUKI

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  #2728863 15-Jun-2021 00:13
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Was really fun to read all the replies. Thanks guys for your input.
1) about "elderly" and not keeping up with the year 2021 :) LOL
2) about quoting Chorus site: read this: "
Areas where fibre is available there’ll be no ‘switch off’ date for the copper network, instead copper will be phased out gradually in local areas only after everyone has moved to fibre."
3) I was part of the UFB rollout telling Chorus on many occasions why and how their processes were wrong (e.g. When they issued over 30 changes to just one SOP within one month :(
4) Had to physically supervise implementation of the fiber on my footpath by seeing what was done in the neighborhood.
Just never been bothered connecting fiber as I am 800 meters from exchange and my ADSL Intenet is flying fast and thick. I.e. My last mile is what the whole bus is - works perfectly well even during heavy rainfalls.
5) I am well aware how not perfect cellular coverage is at my place, and considering availability of UFB mobile modems sent to me - is rediculous option to even consider.
6) While overseeing implementation of UFB over 4.5 years I had very good understanding off who does what and most importantly how they do it. So - I would not allow those people nowhere near my concrete driveway, nor allow them to attach conduit to the fence. Cooper is lying under the driveway and is well protected.
I guess - As per 2) above - I could be that last copper customer in my area for Chorus to keep their 100-pair cable maintained.

jfanning
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  #2728900 15-Jun-2021 08:57
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sbiddle:

 

Stories like the Stuff one are quite confusing and poorly written. Lots of people still don't understand the difference between the discontinuation of copper xDSL services by Chorus (which will start as a trial later this year) and the discontinuation of Spark POTS services which started last December with the first two exchanges, and is currently ramping up with a big list of areas for the September cutoff which is the next group.

 

 

 

 

Is there a list of the areas being cut off in September?


Oblivian
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  #2729073 15-Jun-2021 12:47
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RUKI: Was really fun to read all the replies. Thanks guys for your input.
1) about "elderly" and not keeping up with the year 2021 :) LOL
2) about quoting Chorus site: read this: "
Areas where fibre is available there’ll be no ‘switch off’ date for the copper network, instead copper will be phased out gradually in local areas only after everyone has moved to fibre."
3) I was part of the UFB rollout telling Chorus on many occasions why and how their processes were wrong (e.g. When they issued over 30 changes to just one SOP within one month :(
4) Had to physically supervise implementation of the fiber on my footpath by seeing what was done in the neighborhood.
Just never been bothered connecting fiber as I am 800 meters from exchange and my ADSL Intenet is flying fast and thick. I.e. My last mile is what the whole bus is - works perfectly well even during heavy rainfalls.
5) I am well aware how not perfect cellular coverage is at my place, and considering availability of UFB mobile modems sent to me - is rediculous option to even consider.
6) While overseeing implementation of UFB over 4.5 years I had very good understanding off who does what and most importantly how they do it. So - I would not allow those people nowhere near my concrete driveway, nor allow them to attach conduit to the fence. Cooper is lying under the driveway and is well protected.
I guess - As per 2) above - I could be that last copper customer in my area for Chorus to keep their 100-pair cable maintained.


So what you're confirming is, you likely knew exactly the reason one showed up. Purposely withheld to make it look worse, and take a directed jab at spark

Knowing most of us here likely wouldn't see it as such an issue. While noone from spark will likely take note as it's not the right medium for such demands?

That's a little. Odd.



Rants aside. This also come out this week. Presumably a wider push is yet to come

https://comcom.govt.nz/regulated-industries/telecommunications/projects/commission-111-contact-code

halper86
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  #2729118 15-Jun-2021 14:10
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I have a 91 year old grandmother that received a FWA modem from Spark. No technician, just a courier and a 1 page pamphlet on how to set it up. She got in touch with me saying she was unsure what to do and thought she was getting her copper cut-off after a cold-call from Spark, with a non-english speaking person. She was worried as she has a medical alarm and no other way to contact family or emergency services.

 

I wonder how many other elderly widows have had this experience, including ones with medical alarms, that have cut off their copper with no UPS backup. These people from the top at Spark need to change their perspective on the demographic they are dealing with. Many decision makers will be younger than 65 AND technologically literate. They need to engage with the elderly and work out the most suitable and efficient processes for migrating these customers.


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