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307 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 205059 3-Apr-2009 08:18
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care to share who does own and operate them then?



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  Reply # 205066 3-Apr-2009 08:54
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Hi, so as I read it with regards to the how and what Chorus owns, and please correct me where I am wrong:

Chorus, owns the copper and fibre, both up and down stream of all exchanges. It also owns all cabinets both active and passive in the local loop distribution. This includes the copper from subscribers demarc to ulitmate terminating MDF and all the crossconnect cabinets and pedistals between, but not the switches, DSLAMs or other active equipment that drives this. It also owns the copper and fibre and associated structure between all of its exchanges, but presumably not the electronic interfaces, or repeaters, only the housing and frames and copper/fibre itself.

Chorus also owns and maintains common items within an exchange or cabinet, ie power supplies and gensets, battery systems and rectifier chargers, power distribution, HVAC, distribution frames for both copper and fibre, and in the case of larger buildings, the cleaning, catering (ie kitchen and kettle).

Chorus then sublet floor and rack space to other providers which are primarily Telecom Wholesale, and other ULL operators such as Orcon, Vodafone, Atrix etc. As part of agreements with those operators, Chorus provide cableways to the facilities distirbution frames, power and cooling.

Chorus as a service also provide to all above users maintenance contracts of its copper and fibre network, but this is the part I dont know, if say Telecom Retail are advised of a line fault, they report it to wholesale or Chorus? Regardless ultimately a Chorus tech is called out, he then traces the line back from the demarc, and lets assume he finds that its a line card problem at the terminating exchange, does he as part of a contract between Telecom Wholesale and Chorus fix that (by changing the card or whatever) or does a Telecom Wholesale tech only have the authority to touch their exchange equipment. I presume in the case of Telecom, a Chorus tech is authorised to do basic switch maintenance such as line card swaps, but what about ULL customers of Chorus.

Comments welcome.
Cyril

307 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 205068 3-Apr-2009 09:10
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i know that most LLU equipment is isntalled by "chorus" (downers/transfield).

i still dont understand then who actually owns the NEAX (i thought it was chorus but apparently not) i highly doubt it is telecom wholesale as they dont even do the programming/provisioning of them T&SS do.



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  Reply # 205079 3-Apr-2009 09:54
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T&SS always have provided that programming resource since the NEAXs were first purchased, I presume Telecom as of old owned the NEAXs as when purchased, so one would assume Telecom (or one of its seperated companies) still do own them, I would very much doubt any third party would want to purchase them and lease them back concidering their age/liability. So the logical one is Wholesale.

Cyril

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 205270 4-Apr-2009 10:05
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cyril7:

Chorus as a service also provide to all above users maintenance contracts of its copper and fibre network, but this is the part I dont know, if say Telecom Retail are advised of a line fault, they report it to wholesale or Chorus?


Cyril


 


Retail currently do not buy Regulated broadband services off Wholesale.  They do pay for a service from Wholesale, but do not consume that service in an equivilent manner.  Hence they currently go straight to Chorus for faults for Broadband.


However Telecom has Undertakings to start consuming a Regulated service for new customers from Wholesale from 31 Dec this year, and they will have to consume it in an equivilent manner, and therefore all faults relating to the DSL network (incl the copper) will go to Wholesale (like they would with any other ISP).  Wholesale will then pass the fault to Chorus where necessary.


All existing customers will gradually migrated over to the new equivilent service next year.





My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 205271 4-Apr-2009 10:13
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matt45: i know that most LLU equipment is isntalled by "chorus" (downers/transfield).

Chorus subcontracts much of the work on the network to it's subcontractors - Downers & Transfield.





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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 205272 4-Apr-2009 10:20
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Argh, all these questions got me digging through Telecom's Separation Undertakings (http://www.telecom.co.nz/binarys/telecom_separation_undertakings_25_march_2008.pdf)


 


From section 14.1:


The ANS Unit (i.e. Chorus) will control the Access Network and the operation of that network.


 


I can't find anywhere where it says Chorus actually "own" the 'Access Network'.


The definiation of Access Network:


Local Access Network:
(a) means all lines between the network demarcation point at an End-User’s premises (or, where relevant, the building distribution frames) and the local telephone exchange distribution frame or optical fibre distribution frame or equivalent facility; and 
(b) includes:
   (i) all cables and lines, including aerial and buried customer lead-ins from the network demarcation point at the End- User’s premises, sub-loop, loop and feeder copper, and optical fibre cables;
   (ii) the following infrastructure and buildings:
      (A) poles, ducts, and manholes;
      (B) towers, distribution cabinets, and buildings that are predominantly used to house equipment that forms part of the access network;


      (C) power and building services equipment in the distribution cabinets and buildings referred to in
subparagraph (B); and


   (iii) all Fixed Wireless Access Systems (Fixed End Points) including multi-access radio systems, and microwave systems that are used for backhaul between the points referred to in paragraph (a);
   (iv) all copper-pair gain and loop conditioning systems, but not including the terminal multiplex equipment;
   (v) all passive and active optical fibre equipment between the network demarcation point at an End-User’s premises (or, where relevant, the building distribution frames) and the distribution frame or equivalent facility, including the distribution frame or equivalent facility, but not including the optical termination equipment, optical line terminals, PSTN switch, ethernet aggregation switch, or edge router
equipment if that equipment is not connected through a distribution frame;
   (vi) all copper and optical distribution frames (including main distribution frames, building distribution frames, cabinetbased frames, and intermediate distribution frames) that are predominantly used for the access network; and
   (vii) those information technology support systems that are necessary to ensure the efficient operation, maintenance, and provisioning of the access network and the current and future services that are provided by the ANS Unit, except to the extent that they are provided by Shared Services; but


(c) does not include:
   (i) service nodes, including DSLAMs, multi-service nodes, PSTN switches, or other similar devices that are used to deliver value-added services to End-Users and that are not required for the normal operation of the access network;
   (ii) customer premises wiring;
   (iii) customer premises equipment;
   (iv) any equipment or facilities that are located in, or exclusively used to provide services to, any areas outside of New Zealand; or
   (v) any Dual-Use Cellular Wireless Systems and any Cellular Mobile Systems;


So what I read into these undertakings is that Chorus/Wholesale/Retail own nothing, but control and operate the equipment which is owned within the Telecom Group.  





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  Reply # 205275 4-Apr-2009 11:06
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Just a question from something I read a few posts up, said how you have your copper line as POTS from the "house" to the exchange then it goes VoIP from there (correct me if I'm wrong on this point), with the new cabinets I've noticed from the chorus site most of them are still linked by copper back to the exchange I assume for voice traffic and fibre for internet, will the intention be the DSL/internet gear take over voice traffic eventually and make the copper link back to the exchange redundant?

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 205276 4-Apr-2009 11:25
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cbrpilot:

So what I read into these undertakings is that Chorus/Wholesale/Retail own nothing, but control and operate the equipment which is owned within the Telecom Group.


Yea that sounds plausable, when you think about it its OPERATIONAL Seperation, which i gues means its only the operational activity that is seperated not the actual ownership of assets.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 205277 4-Apr-2009 11:42
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DjShadow: Just a question from something I read a few posts up, said how you have your copper line as POTS from the "house" to the exchange then it goes VoIP from there (correct me if I'm wrong on this point), with the new cabinets I've noticed from the chorus site most of them are still linked by copper back to the exchange I assume for voice traffic and fibre for internet, will the intention be the DSL/internet gear take over voice traffic eventually and make the copper link back to the exchange redundant?


 


I think the copper will stay there for a while let (if it's not replaced by the govt's fibre program) because not everyone will have the scale to put equipment into the cabinets (PSTN/PSTN emulation).





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Master Geek
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  Reply # 205278 4-Apr-2009 11:48
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cbrpilot:
matt45: i know that most LLU equipment is isntalled by "chorus" (downers/transfield).



Chorus subcontracts much of the work on the network to it's subcontractors - Downers & Transfield.




Chorus im sure have not techs as such. If telecom retail/whole sale get a request to install a curcuit  they make the job up allocate cable pairs exchange cards what ever else is needed and then that job is given strait to transfiled/downers

but if is is what is considered a ethernet connection or any new gear needs to be installed in exchanges, chorus gets the request to do the work from telecom retail/wholesale, then chorus gives the request to downers/transfield to do the physical work. chorus manages the install

im not 100% if chorus owns any gear in the exchanges that telecom uses,  telecom just pays them to manage there exchanges




Anything I suggest or say is my own thoughts and not provided by anyone else unless stated

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