Vodafone takes Telecom to courts over interference of new network

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Vodafone takes Telecom to courts over interference of new network

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#211761 2-May-2009 18:45

Old Grey Geek: > "Telecommunications Users Association head Ernie Newman said it was impossible for anyone outside the two companies to judge which was in the right."

So, a waste of time taking it to the court then. Cos judging is what they do, right?

I would say the court would hear from 'independent' expert advise then make the decision based on evidence.

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ahmad

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#211765 2-May-2009 19:23

How much does Vodafone spend on PR for patching up its regular poor judgement calls? No wonder I have to pay $1 to talk to someone when something goes wrong.

Delaying the XT launch will reduce the exodus of customers that shift to Telecom. Yeah right.

richms

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#211786 2-May-2009 22:15

Wob:

And for all those people bagging Vodafone and looking forward to Telecom's XT network - wouldn't it be a good idea to look at both networks before deciding??!?

Full 850 UMTS vs flakey in building 2100 falling back to unusable GPRS speeds? I know which one is the winner in my books.

I am hoping that this ends up being a non issue and things go ahead because I have already arranged to get someone to sign up on the 13th for me.

Richard rich.ms

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#211792 2-May-2009 22:41

I like many am interested to see how this plays out, yes correct we don't have all the facts but it would seem that Vodafone has chosen the most aggressive possible path to resolve their perceived issue.

I have no axe to grind with either company having been on Telecom and Bellsouth/Vodafone over many years, there are good points to both networks.

Having worked in the broadcast industry for many years I have had plenty of dealings with RSM (Radio Spectrum Management - a division of MED) and as mentioned in the media by various commentators interference is a fact of life.

All transmitters create harmonics and when two transmitters are close to each other (in distance) they produce intermod products, RSM seek to mitigate these interference issues by setting maximum emission limits for these signals.

Both carriers will be obliged to install appropriate filtering to minimise (but not eliminate) these spurious signals.

Telecom say in their media release that their sites have been tested and meet the interference standards set by RSM, any argument from Vodafone surely should be with RSM, not through the courts who lets face it will need to rely on no doubt conflicting information from the two companies so called technical experts.

Vodafone will have a hard time arguing 'they were there first' on their frequencies as telecoms analogue network ran on the frequencies in question well before the Bellsouth network started.

With optus rolling out 900mhz in OZ (in regional sites) and Telstra on 850 plus all the other GSM/3G networks I haven't heard of the same issues over there.

One thing is for sure Telecom's getting thousands in free publicity and now everyone's talking about the new network.

Awaiting the outcome with interest?..

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#211810 3-May-2009 00:06

Interesting to read in the NZNOG mailing list of reported issues with interference in 900MHz SRD links in Manukau.

Oggie

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#211811 3-May-2009 00:06

Vodafone oh Vodafone, Lets see how this all pans out in the coming weeks, but I bet my bottom dollar that the launch of Telecom's XT network still goes ahead on the 13th.

Still, reading this thread has made my weekend more interesting, and for that I say thanks Vodafone.

compost

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#211814 3-May-2009 00:20

Can geekzone provide statistics on the number of complaints on the Vodafone board related to call interference, and whether they have increased in the last few months? That might be interesting.

A time-poor geek is hardly a geek at all

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#211815 3-May-2009 00:22

sbiddle: Interesting to read in the NZNOG mailing list of reported issues with interference in 900MHz SRD links in Manukau.

Yes, and it isn't Vodafone they are blaming

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#211828 3-May-2009 03:36

sbiddle: Interesting to read in the NZNOG mailing list of reported issues with interference in 900MHz SRD links in Manukau.

Whats a SRD link?

Richard rich.ms

Wob

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#211845 3-May-2009 09:18

richms:
Wob:

And for all those people bagging Vodafone and looking forward to Telecom's XT network - wouldn't it be a good idea to look at both networks before deciding??!?

Full 850 UMTS vs flakey in building 2100 falling back to unusable GPRS speeds? I know which one is the winner in my books.

I am hoping that this ends up being a non issue and things go ahead because I have already arranged to get someone to sign up on the 13th for me.

The majority of Vodafone's new 3G build is 900MHz, especially for rural areas.

Now based in Perth WA.

ultmobnz

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#211853 3-May-2009 10:08

Wob:
richms:
Wob:

And for all those people bagging Vodafone and looking forward to Telecom's XT network - wouldn't it be a good idea to look at both networks before deciding??!?

Full 850 UMTS vs flakey in building 2100 falling back to unusable GPRS speeds? I know which one is the winner in my books.

I am hoping that this ends up being a non issue and things go ahead because I have already arranged to get someone to sign up on the 13th for me.

The majority of Vodafone's new 3G build is 900MHz, especially for rural areas.

I would say that this is the biggest problem they have, 900mhz UMTS in rural areas and 2100mhz in built up areas. The 2100mhz network is not that flash still in most cities, the 900mhz GSM isnt either, infact I have seen in the main centres of Auck, Welly & CHCH that Vodafones 900mhz GSM is second choice to NZ Comms a lot of the time when on auto. Seriously thats not good! I personally hope Vodafone rolls out 900mhz to all their coverage because until they do, in the cities the will play second fiddle to XT & possibly NZ Comms when live simply due to foot print. 900 mhz UMTS will change this and equal XT.

What is the NZNOG list?

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#211859 3-May-2009 11:14

NZNOG is the NZ Network Operators Group http://www.nznog.org/

As for Vodafone 3G being poor in Wellington I have to say I don't agree. I have my phone in 3G only mode for quitesome time now and the only dropped call I've experienced in the last month was during the handover between the two newly installed 900 UMTS sites over Haywards. Vodafone's problem is still 3G <-> GSM handover which is still an issue.

2100 coverage is not as good as GSM inbuilding the city simply because 2100 does struggle to penetrate rice paper but in terms of 3G coverage around Wellington I find it very good. Remember also that there are areas that only have 2100 3G coverage and don't have GSM coverage.

richms

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#211864 3-May-2009 12:07

Wob:

The majority of Vodafone's new 3G build is 900MHz, especially for rural areas.

Even if that is the case, there is no 900MHz available in the areas I want it at the moment, and I doubt it will change in 2 weeks time. Rural areas dont interest me, malls, carparks, shops etc do.

Richard rich.ms

ultmobnz

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#211868 3-May-2009 13:23

sbiddle: NZNOG is the NZ Network Operators Group http://www.nznog.org/

As for Vodafone 3G being poor in Wellington I have to say I don't agree. I have my phone in 3G only mode for quitesome time now and the only dropped call I've experienced in the last month was during the handover between the two newly installed 900 UMTS sites over Haywards. Vodafone's problem is still 3G <-> GSM handover which is still an issue.

2100 coverage is not as good as GSM inbuilding the city simply because 2100 does struggle to penetrate rice paper but in terms of 3G coverage around Wellington I find it very good. Remember also that there are areas that only have 2100 3G coverage and don't have GSM coverage.

There is the problem I talk about, its the simple fact that Vodafone are not commiting to a full 900mhz UMTS network, they are effectively offering a bolt on 900mhz network to rural and out lying areas and are maintaining there current 2100mhz only solution inside the urban city areas. I appreciate there has been some great work done, i have seen it and it has made a difference however dropping down to a 900mhz GSM service is not ideal when you enter a building in a city.

2100 was intended to be the 3G answer but only with large numbers of cells on given areas to give good performance. That would in the end prove to expensive. 850/900 was found to be ideal solution for covering large areas and in the experience of Next G & At&T customers and others using these frequencies, the difference is obvious.

This is OT but I wonder if most of the problems are being caused by their 900mhz roll out as you perscribed above and not another network?

sbiddle

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#211887 3-May-2009 16:57

ultmobnz:There is the problem I talk about, its the simple fact that Vodafone are not commiting to a full 900mhz UMTS network, they are effectively offering a bolt on 900mhz network to rural and out lying areas and are maintaining there current 2100mhz only solution inside the urban city areas. I appreciate there has been some great work done, i have seen it and it has made a difference however dropping down to a 900mhz GSM service is not ideal when you enter a building in a city.

You need to look at it at an individual level.

There is nowhere I go regularly (or even irregularly) that has no coverage in Wellington except New World Metro (on Willis St) that has terrible inbuilding coverage for both networks despite Telecom having a microcell directly opposite and Vodafone having a site on the Majestic Centre that has downtilt and looks directly over it.

I have my phone locked on UMTS and don't find dropouts. I'm not saying these don't exist - I'm just saying that in the areas I do there are no such issues.

Vodafone can't just deploy 900 in metropolitan areas overnight as they already have a GSM network that presumably still carries a reasonable chunk of their total traffic and lots of people still do only have GSM phones and their are large numbers of GSM telemetry devices.

I'm sure as the GSM traffic decreases that running dual mode dual band 900 and 2100 UMTS and 900 and 1800 GSM in metropolitan areas will become more common - but then again I don't work for Vodafone so it's mere speculation.

Remember spectrum is a finite resource and Vodafone gave up some of tbeir 900 spectrum to NZ Comms.

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