Vodafone takes Telecom to courts over interference of new network

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Ultimate Geek

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Vodafone

# 213181 7-May-2009 14:21

mass congestion from hoardes of iPhone users "clogging" a pristine network with their demand for content?

I'm joking (seriously, Apple, I'm only joking!) but 3G issues do tend to be around congestion because frankly you guys do use far more data than ever before. We're working on it constantly and now that our engineers aren't tied up writing affidavits for court we'll be able to put them to better use on our own network.

cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
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Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

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Cloud Guru
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Snowflake

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# 213188 7-May-2009 14:48

PaulBrislen: We're working on it constantly and now that our engineers aren't tied up writing affidavits for court we'll be able to put them to better use on our own network.

just how long have they been spending on writing affidavits for court? surely not long enough to affect the congestion levels on your 3G service....

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w2krules

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Ultimate Geek

# 213189 7-May-2009 14:49

PaulBrislen: mass congestion from hoardes of iPhone users "clogging" a pristine network with their demand for content?

This problem should soon be solved when the iPhone users ditch Vodafone for the XT network! (Only joking Paul)

I was a geek before the word was invented!

exportgoldman

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# 213190 7-May-2009 14:52

PaulBrislen:

OK, I think you're mixing some things up here.

1: The interference is on the 900MHz band, not 2100MHz. So existing 3G coverage isn't affected, but it may (I'm not sure how much) impact on 3G extend in the 900 space. 2G coverage was badly affected.

2: We haven't known about it for six months - Telecom knew about it in November but we only found out in February. That's in the NBR story on the court case.

Paul

I understand the interference is not on the 2100MHz band, I'm pointing out that even with the filters in place, your network is far from perfect and there a more than this problem with interference with XT that I believe needs to be fixed with your network.

The other issue which I find really annoying is your handovers between 2G and 3G because your 3G network coverage footprint is poor, drops out when doing handovers quite consistantly.

For point 2, How on earth can you run NZ's largest mobile network and not know that you are dropping calls, or having interference problems like crazy. Actually, it does explain a few things about Vodafone if you don't have that visability into your own network and can't see dropouts/bad coverage spots. God knows people have been logging black spots manually with VFNZ for long enough.

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Kemyst

23 posts

Geek

# 213192 7-May-2009 14:58

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/telecoms-it-media/2391180/Vodafone-Telecom-reach-deal

"Telecom's new network means customers will no longer need to change phones to switch service providers."

What utter rubbish from Stuff. Herald reports have shown similar errors. Most of the time you will have to change phones, as the overlap in technology between XT and VF is minimal. The actual story with most phones is below.

Vodafone -> Telecom = change phone
Vodafone 3G iPhone -> Telecom = no change (bonus: you get rural 3G on XT!!!)
Vodafone metro 3G -> Vodafone rural 3G = change phone (99.9% of customers)
Telecom -> Vodafone = no change (99% can kiss goodbye to 3G after moving, see below)

Basically, unless you have an XT compatible phone, you can't move between networks. The 3G iPhone is about the best phone for XT (sorry Vodafone, but you really shoulda got Apple to release a U900 3G iPhone). An XT phone _should_ support good old 2G (GSM/GPRS) for roaming and the good ones will also support Vodafone's metro 3G (2100) both in NZ and roaming. None of the XT phones are likely to support Vodafone rural 3G (900).

So if you live in the city, its quite possible to switch from XT to Voda, but not the other way round. You can just about guarantee Voda 3G won't work for 99% of the phones that are switched from XT to Voda, but good old calling and TXT will be fine.

If you live in the country (country used very loosely), you have to throw out whatever phone you have today to switch to either Vodafone or Telecom's shiny new 3G networks. There are a lucky few that have rural 3G phones now eg 3G iPhone etc, but I've chosen to leave out these lucky few, as you are clearly the exception's.

So, reporters, please endeavour to go ask some geeks before telling people they can just move their phones between providers, when clearly they can't. Or better yet, someone might publish an FAQ with all of the phones that can be ported & what features you get. That way, we save a whole lot of sales people a whole lot of time explaining why reporters have got it wrong. The only thing you can guarantee that will move is your phone number!

(BTW, I don't work for either company and don't sell phones. Clearly, I covet the 3G iPhone)

bbman

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

# 213193 7-May-2009 15:00

PaulBrislen:
exportgoldman:
PaulBrislen: Hi there,

we asked Telecom to stop interfering and they've agreed, so the proceedings come to an end. This was never about delaying the launch, stopping the launch, blocking Telecom launching or any of the other nutbag theories I've read over the past few days, it was about doing what's right for our customers.

Paul

I agree that Vodafone are not entirely to blame and there has been interference in your network, but doing the right thing by your customers I believe would be to not hide the fact from the public that your mobile network has been unable to guarentee completion of emergency services for the last six months. Unless, of course, that was just the PR department talking, and not a actual serious issue.

I still think, excluding the interference from Telecom, that Vodafone's network is experiencing a lot of different problems which will not be fixed by this such as 2G to 3G handover, poor 3G coverage in the cities, and pockets of 3G coverage between sites being too weak, so phones have to hand back over to 2G which well... Call Fail.

OK, I think you're mixing some things up here.

1: The interference is on the 900MHz band, not 2100MHz. So existing 3G coverage isn't affected, but it may (I'm not sure how much) impact on 3G extend in the 900 space. 2G coverage was badly affected.

2: We haven't known about it for six months - Telecom knew about it in November but we only found out in February. That's in the NBR story on the court case.

Cheers

Paul

Paul I think you need to step out of the Vodafone building and actually listen to your customers that you say you are defending!

Customers are not leaving based on Telecoms WCDMA network interference, thats rubbish and I doubt you have the real figures to back that up. They will be leaving because of crap business service and account management (really bad in the last year), $1.00 per call customer service, poor reception compared to the existing CDMA and soon to be launched XT network oh and the biggest factor that you will see more of soon is the fact that finally there is another choice, telecom and soon NZ Comms.

Vodafone for a long time have reaped the benefits of being the sole GSM / 3G WCDMA carrrier due to the great handset and services available. Now Telecom is on the throws of launching a world class network to compete, customers now have a real choice almost apples to apples.

Unfortunately Vodafone once was a customer service legend now is a jugernaut that still tries to make its self out to be the under dog. The tide has turned and Telecom are part of that tide along with NZ Comms.

I hope for Vodafones sake that they focus on getting there own issues sorted that this case has highlighted, it might help there churn rates!

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Oggie

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# 213194 7-May-2009 15:01

Oggie: Vodafone oh Vodafone, Lets see how this all pans out in the coming weeks, but I bet my bottom dollar that the launch of Telecom's XT network still goes ahead on the 13th.

Hahahaha, oooops, got that wrong.........

Behodar

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# 213203 7-May-2009 15:34

I saw something earlier today stating that the launch events will still take place on the 13th, even though network signups won't be available on that date. I wonder whether phone, plan and pricing information will still be released on the 13th at these events.

freitasm

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Geekzone

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# 213231 7-May-2009 16:48

I think the interference caused some problems with their keyboards too...

Paul, the Vodafone email release this morning had this subject:

My technology disclosure | Digital Transformation | Enterprise Content Management | Customer Relationship Management | Data Insights, Business Intelligence and Advanced Analytics

keewee01

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# 213239 7-May-2009 17:03

exportgoldman:
PaulBrislen:
...
2: We haven't known about it for six months - Telecom knew about it in November but we only found out in February. That's in the NBR story on the court case.

Paul

...
For point 2, How on earth can you run NZ's largest mobile network and not know that you are dropping calls, or having interference problems like crazy. Actually, it does explain a few things about Vodafone if you don't have that visability into your own network and can't see dropouts/bad coverage spots. God knows people have been logging black spots manually with VFNZ for long enough.

I was thinking exactly the same thing - how could you (Vodafone) not know about the problems back in November if it was affecting your network!?

Jughead

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Master Geek

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# 213242 7-May-2009 17:13

Ralston calls it for Telecom...

Telecom 4 Vodafone 0

PS this thread is now on page 27, shouldn't some one be calling someone else Hitler by now????

Any views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of my employer Telecom NZ

timestyles

424 posts

Ultimate Geek

# 213243 7-May-2009 17:24

sbiddle: Maybe some of the Telecom fanboys shouldn't have publically criticised Vodafone so quickly..

By definition a telecommunications company fanboy doesn't exist. However, yes right at the start of the thread lots of people were bagging Vodafone based on zero evidence.

Old Grey Geek

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Master Geek

# 213245 7-May-2009 17:29

Russell Stanners: "We needed a solution for our customers," he said. "We wanted to negotiate but it turned out that we had to go to court."... <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10571007">Vodafone says call quality will improve now Telecom 3G fight ove</a>