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wtf

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  Reply # 213354 7-May-2009 23:18
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Grant_k...Thanks for the kind remarks.

Actually intermodulation taking place practically anywhere would not surprise me too much, one of my ex bosses some years ago studied a case where it turned out that the galvanised fence wires around the station were the cause. Transmitters as used these days are probably a little different since I gather they tend to use a linear amplifier with the low level stuff fed into it. So long as the multiple carriers fed in are not to high then there should be little intermodulation. I once wrote a BASIC program to work that out for a satellite station. The old class C output stages were highly non linear and would happily mix whatever was going through with anything coming in the output, and of course the output filters were often quite limited. But yes, a receiver being a low level amplifier makes it quite easy to drive it into nonlinearity. I dopn't know anything about this particular case that is not public knowledge, but will agree it is perfectly feasable that the Vodafone signals could be intermodulating with Telecom signals in the Telecom amplifiers, especially in a co-location case. It may also be that more than one thing is happening, from what I see above VF are tweaking their masthead amps a bit in some places.

just to take you back a few years, I know of a case in the VHF band a few years back where it took some time to figure out the problem. A very weak signal was just opening the gate (squelch) on a receiver. None of the combinations of transmitters in the district could be implicated, eg the 2A -B products and so on were worked out for everything within miles...didn't seem to implicate anything. Finally it was realised that the local oscillator from a receiver about 25 miles away, together with a local transmitter, could produce that frequency. The receiver was turned off and "La voila", the problem was fixed. Those receivers had an RF stage, so the local oscillator should have been at a low level, but nevertheless was radiating out, and combining with the transmitter somewhere. I think the particular receiver was a valve one, so should have had excellent isolation, but there were quite a few transistor ones around by then so I'm not sure. The early transistor sets were of course not wonderful from an intermodulation or signal isolation point of view, that was before MOSFETs, gallium arsenide, or any of that wonderful stuff. Valves were quite good of course, apart from being mechanically fragile, power hungry, and inclined to lose emission. And of course extremely bulky by modern standards. Guitar players still seem to love them but I find it hard to see why.

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  Reply # 213361 8-May-2009 01:24
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w2krules:
PaulBrislen: mass congestion from hoardes of iPhone users "clogging" a pristine network with their demand for content?



This problem should soon be solved when the iPhone users ditch Vodafone for the XT network!  (Only joking Paul)


No, you're not. Just the mention of the end of fallback to 2g is enough to get most iPhone uses salivating.

To be honest, I find that 3g only is perfectly acceptable other then inbuilding. And I thought that vodafone had 1800 all thru the citys anyway so the 900 interference wouldnt be affecting most people anyway?




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rck

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  Reply # 213370 8-May-2009 07:08
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Interesting, in this herald article this morning it mentions that "Under yesterday's agreement with Vodafone, Telecom can sign customers up to the XT Network but they will not be able to use it until the end of May."
I guess that is why they are still going ahead with the launch party

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  Reply # 213408 8-May-2009 11:22
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It strikes me that once the Telecom side of this is squared away, and that there are still issues on the Vodafone side of things and they have to admit they had problems all along that they knew about, that Telecom could then go after Vodafone for anti-competitive behavior! Wow - Vodafone is making it just too darn easy for Telecom to score points here!! (I can't believe I use to support Vodafone and saw Telecom as the bully!)

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  Reply # 213410 8-May-2009 11:34
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Someone posted a blog from Roulston, so here is a one with a diffrerent point of view


http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/show-me-money/2009/5/8/how-telecom-turned-best-news-years-pr-disaster/?c_id=5&objectid=10571154


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Reply # 213425 8-May-2009 12:50
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Hey guys, Im a newbie here but have been going to this site since ages ago :)

Just reading something interesting in herald..

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/show-me-money/2009/5/8/how-telecom-turned-best-news-years-pr-disaster/?c_id=3&objectid=10571154

**sigh**

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  Reply # 213427 8-May-2009 12:53
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sorry guys, didnt see brentbart already posted this link.

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  Reply # 213434 8-May-2009 13:14
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keewee01: It strikes me that once the Telecom side of this is squared away, and that there are still issues on the Vodafone side of things and they have to admit they had problems all along that they knew about, that Telecom could then go after Vodafone for anti-competitive behavior! Wow - Vodafone is making it just too darn easy for Telecom to score points here!! (I can't believe I use to support Vodafone and saw Telecom as the bully!)


I have to agree, Vodafone have issues that are not related to the interference from emissions etc and will probably have them still when XT launches.

Paul is right though, at least there techs can now focus on their network and not on other things.

Now as for the Herald blog.... what a pile of.....

Telecoms CEO is right, what better PR week could they have?






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UFB fibre, Rural fibre on EA networks, RBI wireless, Ruralnet & Ultra wireless, wireless networks


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  Reply # 213464 8-May-2009 14:48
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bbman:
Telecoms CEO is right, what better PR week could they have?



I tend to disagree. Not all publicity is good publicity (despite what Paul Reynolds seems to think).


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  Reply # 213468 8-May-2009 14:50
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What DrPR *thinks* and what he tells the press are possibly two different things.

If he thinks its a PR disaster, he is not going to say that to the press, as that would just worsen things.

From a PR point of view, I think Telecom have managed this reasonably well, though the end result is still them looking a little poor (but then I don't think Vodafone will have fared much better).







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  Reply # 213485 8-May-2009 15:43
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What DrPR *thinks* and what he tells the press are possibly two different things.

If he thinks its a PR disaster, he is not going to say that to the press, as that would just worsen things.

Objection your honour. Speculation.

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  Reply # 213488 8-May-2009 15:47
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NZGroover: What DrPR *thinks* and what he tells the press are possibly two different things.

If he thinks its a PR disaster, he is not going to say that to the press, as that would just worsen things.

Objection your honour. Speculation.

Yes it is, so how about this...

"If he thinks its a PR disaster, do you think he would say that to the press, as that would just worsen things?"







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  Reply # 213535 8-May-2009 18:32
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Referred to like this in the latest official e-mail . . .

After a minor distraction earlier in the week, we are pleased to report that we will still launch in May. The new date is 29 May, and from that date Telecom will be delivering a world class 3G mobile service to 97% of where Kiwis live and work



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  Reply # 213665 9-May-2009 14:26
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keewee01: It strikes me that once the Telecom side of this is squared away, and that there are still issues on the Vodafone side of things and they have to admit they had problems all along that they knew about, that Telecom could then go after Vodafone for anti-competitive behavior!  Wow - Vodafone is making it just too darn easy for Telecom to score points here!! (I can't believe I use to support Vodafone and saw Telecom as the bully!)


Um were you asleep for the past week? That's unlikely given that Telecom agreed they were causing problems. And besides, the terms of the agreement would likely prevent any further legal action if both sides stick to their part of the agreement. Note that Vodafone has never denied having problems of their own. It's somewhat irrelevant anyway. Unless Telecom can prove that the interference wasn't a contributing factor in at least one customer leaving Vodafone, it's unlikely that Telecom would win a legal case against Vodafone.


BTW for anyone still confused (it seems a lot are), the only real point of dispute appear to be why an agreement wasn't reached sooner.  The only real dispute is why they weren't able to reach an agreement earlier. Vodafone claim that Telecom refused to install filters. Telecom claim that Vodafone wanted them to install filters in every site and refused to provide info on whether interference was actually a problem. And installing filters in standard practice worldwide.

Also for those discussing the MED letter bear in mind that even if Telecom was comlying with their license (which we don't know), it doesn't mean that Vodafone didn't have a valid case. If NZ spectrum management plan is flawed, there may still be other legal reasons why Telecom is responsible if their network is causing problems. I do agree that Vodafone has other issues unrelated to the interference. I don't however see how we can ever really know what percentage of Vodafone's recent higher churn is related to the interference issues.

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