Vodafone takes Telecom to courts over interference of new network

Forums › Spark New Zealand › Vodafone takes Telecom to courts over interference of new network

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23 posts

Geek

Reply # 211657 2-May-2009 13:21

Agreed and a good point as to none of the key inside people, apart from the vodafone media rep are speaking up.

It is a forum of opinion though so speculation is to be expected, we all have bias one way or the other. Its just a shame that this has gone to court instead of being sorted by the people who in the end will fix it. Will be keen to see the outcome that best suits each companies customers.

KiwiME

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Master Geek
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Reply # 211659 2-May-2009 13:22

ultmobnz: Why delay the launch, the interference will be there with the network live under commercial use or under test. As long as the techs are working to fix it then thats all that should matter.

I'm not familiar with the MED's level of authority in this, but is it not appropriate for Vodafone to establish their position in the courts in case they need to claim compensation for losses once Telecom's new network goes formally on-line? Having the engineers work on this till it's fixed is all well and fine but their are business timing issues as well.

Reply:Sounds like a classic case of the marketing dept not talking to the tech dept.

Simply from experience I would totally agree that this is the most likely scenario. Marketing, legal, engineering - all doing their own thing with minimal coordination.

matt45

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Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 211662 2-May-2009 13:40

i think vfone mainly use infratel, to do their installation work, and use vector fiber for backhaul if available or if not 2meg and/or microwave.

Old Grey Geek

140 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 211667 2-May-2009 13:46

Well, I wondered about the choice of Richard Hammond for their launch. It's all very well and good for him to be saying "I have test driven blah blah blah" but he made no mention of having also crashed a rocket car and spent months in a coma. A parallel situation seems to have raised its ugly head with the spectre of a long drawn out court case and the attendant injunctions against telecom going live with their new baby.

After years of Telecom bashing in comparison to the apparent good guy, Vodafone, can we now see the hideous truth that Vodafone is the greedy mutinational and Telecom is the cuddly Kiwi?.

alexx

608 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 211697 2-May-2009 15:36

Some amazing conclusions being drawn here from zero evidence.

> nz comms is much closer frequency why aren’t they interfering.

Maybe they are? You'd need to ask nz comms - not sure if nz comms would be in any position to start their own legal proceedings and even if they were, I'm not sure how a network with no customers could claim any sort of loss or damages.

> If there was a problem, a simple call to RSM or the National Enforcement Unit of the MED...

Perhaps they have made that call already, but if they did, I would imagine that the call and the subsequent investigation, would be anything but simple.

> Vodafone have been rushing to get 3G nationwide since late last year, maybe they have pushed the envelope...

That might make sense if the interference was only being experienced by vodafones new 3G sites... but do we know that? What if even existing 2G sites were suffering? I'm not sure if the infomation in the media specifies the nature of the interference so perhaps we should wait a bit.

> and a good point as to none of the key inside people, apart from the vodafone media rep are speaking up.

Indeed... probably a wise move. We also need to consider that even if some people have some understanding of the interference mechanism at one or two sites, that does not mean that the same interference mechanism is to blame at all sites. Maybe there are only a handful of people that have a clear picture of what is happening.

There might also be a difference between being in the right in a technical sense and being in the right in a legal sense.

Perhaps the best comment I've seen...

"Telecommunications Users Association head Ernie Newman said it was impossible for anyone outside the two companies to judge which was in the right."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10569975

Wob

310 posts

Ultimate Geek

NBN Co

Reply # 211707 2-May-2009 16:10

Can I clear a few things up:

Vodafone use TI contractors to do the 3G upgrades: Infratel (go team!!?!), Skycom and Kordia. Downers currently have the Vodafone maintenance contract - Downers also have it for Telecom and TelstraClear.

Vodafone are not using "Generic gear", they are using the real deal - proper kit from the globally leading cellular equipment manufacturer, already deployed in many countries, tried, tested and absolutely fit for purpose.

The same goes for their antenna plant - all brand new, properley installed. In fact Vodafone is using this project to UPGRADE their existing GSM antenna plant.

Delayed txts etc. have nothing to do with the 3G upgrades.

I can't comment on the interference issues, as I know nothing! (German accect, a la Sgt. Shultz).

Seriously though, we will all have to wait and see what the outcome of the legal proceedings are.

And for all those people bagging Vodafone and looking forward to Telecom's XT network - wouldn't it be a good idea to look at both networks before deciding??!?

Now based in Perth WA.

Check out my blog
Any comments or posts are not necessarily the opinion of my employer - who are bloody marvelous by the way.

ultmobnz

23 posts

Geek

Reply # 211722 2-May-2009 16:47

"I am close friends with a person in the trade, and according to them the interfence is only where vodafone has used "Generic Gear" e.g with a freq of 800mhz to 1000 because that is cheaper than singluar gear what vodafone have used in Large CBD Areas.

So in saying that, yes Telecom's 850 network is interfering with Vodafones network, except Telecom are in the right as they have brought the license to 850 and it is vodafones fault for not locking down the gear to their own network bands.

edit: "Please not he or she does not work directly with any mobile network, and any of this infomation can be found with a google search"

I wonder if the above from previous post could be correct based on what you have said? may be not quite accurate.

dauckland

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Reply # 211724 2-May-2009 16:49

Not sure about you all but I have had a few text messages delayed. But strangely they only started to arrive late after Vodafone took Telecom to court.
Anyone else?

zocster

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Reply # 211728 2-May-2009 16:59

Wob: I can't comment on the interference issues, as I know nothing! (German accect, a la Sgt. Shultz).

Seriously though, we will all have to wait and see what the outcome of the legal proceedings are.

And for all those people bagging Vodafone and looking forward to Telecom's XT network - wouldn't it be a good idea to look at both networks before deciding??!?

I like the I know nothing bit, when I know you know a fair bit more, and I more than agree with you re the waiting outcome, as without it all this 9 panothingges of banter are nothing more than fans rooting for one company or the other, mere speculations.

And I am sitting on the fence at the moment before deciding which way to go.

Forget it I think I got it sorted :)

Antzzz

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Master Geek
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Reply # 211731 2-May-2009 17:08

Surprised that no-one has raised the issue of opportunistic roaming - as we've had only 1 GSM/WCDMA network in NZ for so long my guess would be that most GSM/WCDMA phones are set to automatic network selection - mine certainly was.

Now with NZ Comms around and them starting to deploy their network means that phones may be spending time trying to roam on to their network where the signal is stronger. I'm not certain what the effect of this would be, but I'm guessing that it could cause issues as phones try to switch back and forth between the networks?

Anyone in the trade know if there have been any directives out from VF about ensuring phones are set to manual network selection?

scottjpalmer

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Reply # 211734 2-May-2009 17:14

Antzzz: Surprised that no-one has raised the issue of opportunistic roaming - as we've had only 1 GSM/WCDMA network in NZ for so long my guess would be that most GSM/WCDMA phones are set to automatic network selection - mine certainly was.

Now with NZ Comms around and them starting to deploy their network means that phones may be spending time trying to roam on to their network where the signal is stronger. I'm not certain what the effect of this would be, but I'm guessing that it could cause issues as phones try to switch back and forth between the networks?

Anyone in the trade know if there have been any directives out from VF about ensuring phones are set to manual network selection?

This is OT for this thread, start a new thread if you wish, but I am near certain Vodafone don't have a roaming agreement with NZC this way around (there is of course one in reverse to let NZC customers onto VF when out of NZC network coverage) so your phone wouldn't actually be able to connect/be used.

Antzzz

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Master Geek
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Reply # 211737 2-May-2009 17:27

This is OT for this thread, start a new thread if you wish, but I am near certain Vodafone don't have a roaming agreement with NZC this way around (there is of course one in reverse to let NZC customers onto VF when out of NZC network coverage) so your phone wouldn't actually be able to connect/be used.

Ahh, I think this is very much on topic - the issue has been described as being caused by 'interference', but we're all assuming here that interference means RF issues.

But given that the whole multiple WCDMA provider thing is new to NZ I would have thought there are bound to be problems caused by it due to people simply not being familiar with being able to connect to multiple networks from the same handset.

Some time ago when NZ Comms started deploying their network I noticed that my phone would (very occasionally) prompt me to try to connect to their network. Obviously it would fail, but the very fact that it was attempting to do this rather than just trying to hold on to the VFNZ network to me indicates that this is likely to be a problem with those who don't understand what is going on. Setting the phone to manual network selection solved this problem, and at the same time I noticed a higher level of reliability from my phone - calls would drop less frequently.

Do we know for certain that the 'interference' being referred to in this case is RF? As stated by others there are channels thru the MED to get this resolved if this was the case, so I'm just speculating the issue may have another root cause, hence the court case.

scottjpalmer

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Reply # 211738 2-May-2009 17:30

Fair point but my understanding is the interference claims are based more on network stats than customer complaints

Loftus

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Reply # 211745 2-May-2009 18:07

Interesting... interference stats from the GSM or WCDMA carriers?

Old Grey Geek

140 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 211753 2-May-2009 18:21

> "Telecommunications Users Association head Ernie Newman said it was impossible for anyone outside the two companies to judge which was in the right."

So, a waste of time taking it to the court then. Cos judging is what they do, right?

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