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exportgoldman
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  #236320 17-Jul-2009 00:27
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Our work is a Apple reseller, and they have very strict rules about using their logos/names and other trademarks to the point where we cannot put two of Apple's own certifications side by side.

You have to remember that Apple manage their brand extremely well, and because of the hype and publicity surrounding their launch events they get hundreds of millions of dollars at times of free advertising.

My question is, if Apple are peeved at Telecom, why are they still selling unlocked iPhones below Vodafone retail's price in New Zealand? This only hurts Vodafone and helps Telecom.

The way to get back at Telecom would be to pull the iPhone from the Apple NZ store. Just my 2c since I actually know nothing in the way of insider goss.




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  #236339 17-Jul-2009 07:54
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exportgoldman: The way to get back at Telecom would be to pull the iPhone from the Apple NZ store. Just my 2c since I actually know nothing in the way of insider goss.


No, this is not "the way to get back" at any other company. This only hurts your own brand. Small minded companies do that. Other companies use this as leverage in their talks, and call laywers if they feel really hurt.





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exportgoldman
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  #236346 17-Jul-2009 08:43
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freitasm:
exportgoldman: The way to get back at Telecom would be to pull the iPhone from the Apple NZ store. Just my 2c since I actually know nothing in the way of insider goss.


No, this is not "the way to get back" at any other company. This only hurts your own brand. Small minded companies do that. Other companies use this as leverage in their talks, and call laywers if they feel really hurt.



Perhaps you are right, but I've seen stranger thing happen.

So what I still don't understand is what was the deal with launch day? From my impressions Vodafone thought they had a exclusive iPhone deal and did a big song and dance, with convoluted rules about contracts/no prepay without proof of being a longstanding VF customer etc, with all the reasons given being that pirates would fly in and take the unlocked phone overseas and sell them etc then Apple under cut Vodafone on launch day and have no restrictions on who they sell to and a better price to boot.

This move only helped Telecom, and in my view kinda ruined Vodafones launch. What was the reasoning behind Apple doing that? Have I completely misunderstood what happened?




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.



bmoses
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  #236354 17-Jul-2009 09:28
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matt45: isnt "iPhone" a trademark? if so legally telecom wouldn't be able to use it unless they were told they could by apple. (im not saying apple said they could use it)


Didn't stop Apple using the brand "iPhone" it when it was owned by Cisco (http://blogs.cisco.com/news/comments/update_on_ciscos_iphone_trademark/) Smile.  Not that I'm suggesting Telecom could use this as an excuse...

bcourtney
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  #236377 17-Jul-2009 10:17
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Don't Apple still get some sort of kickback from the Vodafone iPhone plans? If this is the case and Telecom were actively advertising similar iPhone plans without a formal contract with Apple that gives Apple a similar level of kickback then I can understand why Apple may be a little miffed.

Especially if Telecom and Apple are currently in negotiations for reselling the iPhone on the XT network.

Perhaps Telecom is jumping the gun on the negotiations and attempting to get as many people on their equivalent plan BEFORE Apple put their foot down and force them to use iPhone branded plans that include a certain amount of 'cream' for Apple?

Not in the industry so only speculation

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  #236379 17-Jul-2009 10:20
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But good points...




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VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #236390 17-Jul-2009 10:36

bcourtney: Don't Apple still get some sort of kickback from the Vodafone iPhone plans? If this is the case and Telecom were actively advertising similar iPhone plans without a formal contract with Apple that gives Apple a similar level of kickback then I can understand why Apple may be a little miffed.

Especially if Telecom and Apple are currently in negotiations for reselling the iPhone on the XT network.

Perhaps Telecom is jumping the gun on the negotiations and attempting to get as many people on their equivalent plan BEFORE Apple put their foot down and force them to use iPhone branded plans that include a certain amount of 'cream' for Apple?

Not in the industry so only speculation


No.

I think you're thinking of the AT&T deal in the US where the phones are cheaper to the customer because AT&T is exclusive and also (rumour has it) that they pay a clip of the ticket for everything done on the iPhone.

Cheers,

Paul




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bcourtney
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  #236392 17-Jul-2009 10:38
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PaulBrislen:
bcourtney: Don't Apple still get some sort of kickback from the Vodafone iPhone plans? If this is the case and Telecom were actively advertising similar iPhone plans without a formal contract with Apple that gives Apple a similar level of kickback then I can understand why Apple may be a little miffed.

Especially if Telecom and Apple are currently in negotiations for reselling the iPhone on the XT network.

Perhaps Telecom is jumping the gun on the negotiations and attempting to get as many people on their equivalent plan BEFORE Apple put their foot down and force them to use iPhone branded plans that include a certain amount of 'cream' for Apple?

Not in the industry so only speculation


No.

I think you're thinking of the AT&T deal in the US where the phones are cheaper to the customer because AT&T is exclusive and also (rumour has it) that they pay a clip of the ticket for everything done on the iPhone.

Cheers,

Paul


OK thanks for clearing that up, Paul :)

Ignore my post people.

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  #236393 17-Jul-2009 10:39
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Paul, the rumour I've heard here in New Zealand when the iPhone 3G was launched last year was that everything going through the iPhone APN was revenue shared with Apple - hence why Vodafone New Zealand was making people use the iPhone APN by default.

Any basis for that? Was this the case? Has this changed?







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VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #236394 17-Jul-2009 10:40

No, that was never the case.




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marmel
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  #236395 17-Jul-2009 10:41
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Interesting then that any "negotiations" that may be ongoing with Telecom/Apple are taking so long. If it is like Paul has suggested and Apple do not get a share of the revenue post purchase then surely the only thing to argue about is the wholesale price of the phone?

I can't see Apple wanting to set plan prices/data allowances etc when they are seling the phone from there own store anyway?

Kyanar
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  #236518 17-Jul-2009 18:14
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You know, Vodafone should really have left that rumour - now we can confirm that Apple isn't to blame for Vodafone's ridiculous price gouging - the last time I accused them of that I was quite firmly informed that Vodafone pays a cut of the plan to Apple, and that's why iPhones are so expensive.

Huh.


Aaroona
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  #236526 17-Jul-2009 19:04
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Kyanar:

You know, Vodafone should really have left that rumour - now we can confirm that Apple isn't to blame for Vodafone's ridiculous price gouging - the last time I accused them of that I was quite firmly informed that Vodafone pays a cut of the plan to Apple, and that's why iPhones are so expensive.

Huh.




I'm glad someone was thinking what I was thinking.

exportgoldman
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  #236538 17-Jul-2009 19:34
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I'm very suprised that Apple has not been able to negotiate a continuing revenue stream out of Vodafone like it did with AT&T in the states, according to this article Apple Gets $831 for Every iPhone Sold Thanks to AT&T Payments and thats in US dollars. Now when you take into account that works out to $18/month per subscriber and then realise New Zealand has some of the highest mobile rates in the world, I'm stunned that Apple failed to grab some of that revenue...

This article The $831 iPhone on a blog on the New York Times says that Apple have negotiated similar revenue sharing deals with European telco's of up to 40% of the monthly subscriber revenues.

And when the iPhone first launched in New Zealand Vodafone did have exclusivity on it so I'm not sure what Paul is talking about, unless he means exclusive = locked then that would make sense.

Paul says a definitive no, but he also said Vodafone were the only or one of the only carriers to sell unlocked iPhones, which was completely false from what he linked to on Apple's on web site, so I take his no with a grain of salt (no offense Paul :)

If we are spreading rumours, the one I heard when the 3G launched was that Vodafone paid a % of the data revenue contract to Apple on signing. e.g. if they had a 2 year $50/month contract then Apple got say 50% of the total value of that contract. I heard it from another Apple reseller and he said thats why you had to buy a data contract with the iPhone. I don't know how true it all was, but it stuck in my head.

At the end of the day I don't believe Apple is that bad a negotiator, but I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again...




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VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #236541 17-Jul-2009 19:52

AT&T is exclusive. That is, no other provider in the US sells the iPhone.

In the first wave of iPhone launches, Apple chose exclusive operators in each country. That operator is supposed to have given Apple a cut of anything the customer did on the network using that phone.

In the second wave, the iPhone 3G, the operators weren't exclusive - and that's where Vodafone NZ came in.

We have never had the iPhone exclusive contract in New Zealand.

That nobody else sold it does not mean we had an exclusive deal. It's quite different.

So, exportgoldman, your rumour is not only untrue, it's also false. And wrong. And rubbish.

Did I mention it was inaccurate?

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
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http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


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