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245 posts

Master Geek

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  # 323446 27-Apr-2010 10:24
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shiroshadows:
doozy: Local traffic is not shaped, so if you can't get to the DNS it is definitely not anything to do with the traffic management on the plan.


Your avoiding the question...

nzpossum: Tell us Doozy. Are we capped at 100KB/ s or is this temporary. This is all people want to know.


Given the amount of threads and such around people trying to get around shaping, much like how we wouldn't publish how a spam filter works, I really don't think it would be wise for me to give any details on the configuration of the traffic shaping policy




Tarawera Ultra 2015 done, bring on 2016

499 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 323448 27-Apr-2010 10:28
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doozy:
shiroshadows:
doozy: Local traffic is not shaped, so if you can't get to the DNS it is definitely not anything to do with the traffic management on the plan.


Your avoiding the question...

nzpossum: Tell us Doozy. Are we capped at 100KB/ s or is this temporary. This is all people want to know.


Given the amount of threads and such around people trying to get around shaping, much like how we wouldn't publish how a spam filter works, I really don't think it would be wise for me to give any details on the configuration of the traffic shaping policy


I am sorry I don't really understand that, how would telling people if you are going to continue capping http traffic help them get around traffic shaping? Can you please explain that?

It is a simple question that deserves a simple answer.

Some people came to the plan after having listened to others saying that http speeds among other things were very good.  A few months into the plan you guys suddenly changed it, the minimum you owe people is to tell the truth about whether you are going to continue capping the http speeds 24/7.

It isn't much to ask is it?

 
 
 
 


42 posts

Geek


  # 323454 27-Apr-2010 10:38

Yes we are not asking for ways to get around a filter we just want to know if international traffic is capped at 100KB/s as we are getting told different things by CSR reps, level 2 technicians etc. At the moment Big Time hardly qualifies as broadband when it takes 2 hours to download a 20mb file. People are not able to download installers, use Skype and do a whole bunch of other stuff so is this how it's going to be in future. Why can't you give a simple answer.

483 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 323490 27-Apr-2010 11:39
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By providing to much information or answering questions in relation to a piece of software or technology can allow a person to build up enough knowledge on how it works to eventually break through. Telecom isn't going to provide that information on how or what the traffic shaping does. Its like a Jigsaw puzzle, The more pieces you put on the table, the better understanding you have to what it looks like and the easier it is to finish. Same with traffic shaping, the more pieces of information out there, the easier it is to break.

If enough information is release on how and what the traffic shaping does then eventually someone will click and design a work around based on the technology.





CraZeD,
Your friendly Southern Geeky Fellow :P


499 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 323498 27-Apr-2010 11:50
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crazed: By providing to much information or answering questions in relation to a piece of software or technology can allow a person to build up enough knowledge on how it works to eventually break through. Telecom isn't going to provide that information on how or what the traffic shaping does. Its like a Jigsaw puzzle, The more pieces you put on the table, the better understanding you have to what it looks like and the easier it is to finish. Same with traffic shaping, the more pieces of information out there, the easier it is to break.

If enough information is release on how and what the traffic shaping does then eventually someone will click and design a work around based on the technology.



Did you even read what you wrote ?  I mean come on... it makes no sense at all in the context of what people are asking.  It is something I would expect from Telecom... oh wait yes they already wrote the same as you :P

We already know they have capped http at 100kbytes.   So they aren't giving away anything.

What people want to know is..... because they are paying money for this plan is....... are they going to continue capping it?  because they want to know if its worthwhile staying on the plan or not.
It has _nothing_ to do with beating shaping for crying out loud.  It has to do with them making a big change which basically goes against what they advertised and then not letting anyone know if that well known change is here to stay or not.


18516 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 323504 27-Apr-2010 11:57
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By providing to much information or answering questions in relation to a piece of software or technology can allow a person to build up enough knowledge on how it works to eventually break through. Telecom isn't going to provide that information on how or what the traffic shaping does. Its like a Jigsaw puzzle, The more pieces you put on the table, the better understanding you have to what it looks like and the easier it is to finish. Same with traffic shaping, the more pieces of information out there, the easier it is to break.

If enough information is release on how and what the traffic shaping does then eventually someone will click and design a work around based on the technology.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is no real help. This post is an example that breaking or bypassing traffic shaping is a bone fide task. What is the effect if everyone bypassed shaping? What is the effect on your connection if 6 mates in your street were using 1Tb+ each per month?  What is the effect on your connection if you bypassed or tried to bypass shaping and either we restricted that to manage the plan, and/or you lost the ability to get better speed if you were not particpating in our caching due to your alternate means of connection to Telecom? 
What is the effect on our providing a unique plan if some spoil it for others?  

Foods for thought.  

Cheers

Tony

19 posts

Geek


  # 323514 27-Apr-2010 12:06
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At present big time is a traffic managed one megabit connection except for local traffic. It is presently being fraudulently advertised especially under traffic management

# Traffic Management - We don't place an artificial cap on the download or upload speed on the majority of the internet activity our customers have on this plan. But because it has no fixed data allowance, we do manage all the traffic on it to optimise the experience for everyone on the plan. When the network is busy (generally inside the hours of 9am and 2am) you may notice reduced speeds, in particular you are likely to see reduced speeds in relation to file sharing traffic and online gaming.

A data cap on virtually all international traffic is an artificial cap on the overwhelming majority of internet usage. If telecom wants to throttle back file sharing related activity that is it's perogative as it is stated in terms and conditions.

The part where it says when the network is busy you may notice reduced speeds. Speeds are presently reduced constantly regardless of time of day or level of network activity.




 
 
 
 


1892 posts

Uber Geek


  # 323522 27-Apr-2010 12:12
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Is international traffic shaped at 1mbps 24/7 for good:

I fail to see how a simple yes or no would leak so much information that it would compromise the shaping to the point where the people that can be bothered getting around it can get around it more.

We aren't exactly asking for the source code here...





Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

483 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 323527 27-Apr-2010 12:16
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The plan is traffic managed, The plan has caps on traffic types, The plan can slow down, they haven't said that they dont cap the download and upload, they have stated "We don't place an artificial cap on the download or upload speed on the majority of the internet activity our customers have on this plan." that doesnt say they dont cap, it says they dont cap the majority of traffic, but they still do cap traffic. They have more or less given themselves the right by Public statement to cap traffic and shape traffic as they see fit. They have told people that the plan isn't for everyone and that File downloading and gaming will be affected.

I'm not a big supporter of Telecom, I have had my problems with them. I went back to Telecom on the bigtime plan because I'm sick of the charges and my internet bill go up and down like a yoyo depending on how much myself, Wife and kids use.





CraZeD,
Your friendly Southern Geeky Fellow :P


42 posts

Geek


  # 323531 27-Apr-2010 12:18

Doozy is an example of why people have such hostility towards Telecom at the moment. As an employee he obviously could lay out the cold hard facts about the throttling going on but instead gives us some absurd excuse that he does not what to be seen as helping people bypass the traffic management ( or should i say capping) that is going on. If your not allowed to disseminate this information Doozy because it would mean people finding out the truth about capping then say so, but people on this plan have been screwed for  the last 2 weeks now that these kind of ridiculous excuses make people more angry. Some people have been getting international speeds of less than 20KB/s and Telecom give you a different answer at every turn. Do you think it is ok for people to have to pay $60 for dial up speeds only to be shafted when they ask if this is permanent. Doozy how about providing people with some real information so they can make informed decisions. Some people may decide to change plans but how about some honesty.

42 posts

Geek


  # 323535 27-Apr-2010 12:25

crazed:
The plan is traffic managed, The plan has caps on traffic types, The plan can slow down, they haven't said that they dont cap the download and upload, they have stated "We don't place an artificial cap on the download or upload speed on the majority of the internet activity our customers have on this plan." that doesnt say they dont cap, it says they dont cap the majority of traffic, but they still do cap traffic. They have more or less given themselves the right by Public statement to cap traffic and shape traffic as they see fit. They have told people that the plan isn't for everyone and that File downloading and gaming will be affected.

I'm not a big supporter of Telecom, I have had my problems with them. I went back to Telecom on the bigtime plan because I'm sick of the charges and my internet bill go up and down like a yoyo depending on how much myself, Wife and kids use.



It says they don't place a cap on the majority of traffic. WHICH THEY ARE 

1892 posts

Uber Geek


  # 323538 27-Apr-2010 12:28
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nzpossum:
It says they don't place a cap on the majority of traffic. WHICH THEY ARE 


Depends on how they define "majority"





Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

499 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 323546 27-Apr-2010 12:35
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I think they have clearly gone against what they advertised. They are artificially capping the majority of traffic 24/7.

I have just made an official complain to Com Com. I would suggest those that think they have also mislead people on the plan do likewise. Let com com decide.

You can make a complaint here
http://www.comcom.govt.nz/making-a-complaint/

I would highlight telecoms own description
"We don't place an artificial cap on the download or upload speed on the majority of the internet activity our customers have on this plan. But because it has no fixed data allowance, we do manage all the traffic on it to optimise the experience for everyone on the plan. When the network is busy (generally inside the hours of 9am and 2am) you may notice reduced speeds, in particular you are likely to see reduced speeds in relation to file sharing traffic and online gaming."

And then point out that they are in fact now capping http traffic (which is the majority of internet traffic) 24/7.


483 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 323550 27-Apr-2010 12:37
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The way people are trying to bypass the shaping process by artificially re-routing traffic through different protocols and ports, it doesn't surprise me that the caps now extend to the majority of traffic.

One thing I have seen mentioned on a couple of forums now, is the fact that the caps appeared around the same time as people started posting comments about being able to bypass the traffic shaping, so maybe there is a relation there.

Before I signed up for this plan I did my research, I knew based on what others had personally told me and from what I read on telecoms website and other forums, that there was several facts about the plan:

Traffic is shaped
Some traffic is capped
P2P traffic can be heavily affected
Http Downloads can be throttled.
Sat & Sun nights can be very very slow
WoW traffic can be very slow and in most cases a SSH tunnel may be needed.

Now I knew all that before I signed up for the Bigtime plan last year. I'm not defending Telecom, or the Bigtime plan, I'm just stating what is clearly visible on the website, We know from Telecoms website that Yes there is caps. Maybe too many people were blinded by the word"Unlimited".




CraZeD,
Your friendly Southern Geeky Fellow :P


19 posts

Geek


  # 323555 27-Apr-2010 12:43
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Do you believe telecom is accurately representing those caps though? In it's terms and conditions? I read it at best as misleading more inclined to view as fraud because it is deliberate.

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