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681 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 266271 23-Oct-2009 03:13
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doozy: Thanks Ragnor, I've got a meeting with the tech folk tomorrow to do something to fix this, don't know what that something is yet, but I will fwd them what you've provided as it may assist them


Do you still want more information? I could test the pings throughout the day if you like? (Even though it calls it ping in game i have a suspicion its latency.)

One thing i have found though, which is interesting:

When im going direct to the server, its unplayable (1k+ ping)

When going thorugh my proxy server (same location as the server, just tunneled via ssh) i get around 250 ping (when im lucky). The ping isnt stable, it generally varies from around 230 to 460 depending on the time (seems to be worse peek time).

I have a few clients using the proxy service and they have a very stable ping (250ish) constantly. No variation like me. Others on big time have this issue too.

Chuck me a pm/msg if you need anything, im in the networking field, though I only know a bit about traffic shaping equipment i understand how it would works.

Oh and, not sure if this will help, but the main Aion port (game data) is TCP - 7777

This is what is tuneled with our service, because it is what causes the ping issue.


245 posts

Master Geek

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  # 266286 23-Oct-2009 08:53
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I do still require information yes, so thanks for that, will include in the meeting today




Tarawera Ultra 2015 done, bring on 2016

 
 
 
 




51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  # 266751 25-Oct-2009 22:29
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well, just an update, still no let up on mmorpgs, I have tried using various poxys and other things suggested here to tunnel directly to ncsoft servers but no cigar, Ill be waiting for what ever comes out of this meeting doozy says telecom are having.

780 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 266792 26-Oct-2009 09:11
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I see this is in the mainstream media now.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2998795/Telecom-broadband-plan-unusable-for-gaming


Andrew Gall, also on Big Time, says performance has improved and the problem seems to be fixed, but latency ? the time it takes data to travel between servers ? on the plan was "way higher than it should be".

"Normal" latency is about 40 milliseconds, but latency for traffic from Europe has been about 600-700 milliseconds, he says.


THis guy is implying normal international latency to Europe is 40ms. But, I cannot even get that inside NZ .



51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  # 266829 26-Oct-2009 11:19
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you probebly should be able to get perhapes 100 at the very least, really telecom have everything so tied up atm just bleh, maybe I should complain to consumer nz ddint even no they existed until now, well if nothing improves ill be giving them a call.

245 posts

Master Geek

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  # 266834 26-Oct-2009 11:51
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wreck90: I see this is in the mainstream media now.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2998795/Telecom-broadband-plan-unusable-for-gaming


Andrew Gall, also on Big Time, says performance has improved and the problem seems to be fixed, but latency ? the time it takes data to travel between servers ? on the plan was "way higher than it should be".

"Normal" latency is about 40 milliseconds, but latency for traffic from Europe has been about 600-700 milliseconds, he says.


THis guy is implying normal international latency to Europe is 40ms. But, I cannot even get that inside NZ .




Gee, nice way to sum up the hard work of the 100+ people - kind of makes it all seem a little pointless




Tarawera Ultra 2015 done, bring on 2016



51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  # 266839 26-Oct-2009 12:13
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lol doozy, any news man?

 
 
 
 


1240 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 266846 26-Oct-2009 12:51
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You physically CANT get 40ms to Europe...wolfram will back me up!

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=auckland+to+london

3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  # 266870 26-Oct-2009 14:15
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wreck90: I see this is in the mainstream media now.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2998795/Telecom-broadband-plan-unusable-for-gaming


Andrew Gall, also on Big Time, says performance has improved and the problem seems to be fixed, but latency ? the time it takes data to travel between servers ? on the plan was "way higher than it should be".

"Normal" latency is about 40 milliseconds, but latency for traffic from Europe has been about 600-700 milliseconds, he says.


THis guy is implying normal international latency to Europe is 40ms. But, I cannot even get that inside NZ .


Eh I have a ping of 500-650 to the Aion servers (apparently they're all in the same place east & west) on Adventure plan interleaving on.

I organised a plan change today to see what turning interleaving off will do for it and maybe try one of the SSH services. Its odd because other games perform (or have in the past) fine. I havent played EVE in a while but i had a ping of about 200-250 there and same for Ragnarok online and rising force online.

4201 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 266879 26-Oct-2009 14:37
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Asmosis:
wreck90: I see this is in the mainstream media now.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2998795/Telecom-broadband-plan-unusable-for-gaming


Andrew Gall, also on Big Time, says performance has improved and the problem seems to be fixed, but latency ? the time it takes data to travel between servers ? on the plan was "way higher than it should be".

"Normal" latency is about 40 milliseconds, but latency for traffic from Europe has been about 600-700 milliseconds, he says.


THis guy is implying normal international latency to Europe is 40ms. But, I cannot even get that inside NZ .


Eh I have a ping of 500-650 to the Aion servers (apparently they're all in the same place east & west) on Adventure plan interleaving on.

I organised a plan change today to see what turning interleaving off will do for it and maybe try one of the SSH services. Its odd because other games perform (or have in the past) fine. I havent played EVE in a while but i had a ping of about 200-250 there and same for Ragnarok online and rising force online.


Are you aware of the impact delayed ACKs have on many MMORPGs? There are a LOT more factors at play in the _reported_ "ping" times of these games. There have been some transient issues where there were genuine latency issues to some destinations, but I believe that these have for the most part, been solved.

Quoting ping times from games won't provide any helpful information to Telecom if you want to raise a fault. You should do some investigation first and see what the actual ICMP echo times are to the actul server if possible, or to a couple of nearby locations at least.

At the end of the day of course, the Big Time plan is traffic managed, and Telecom reserves the right to manage any type of traffic. I know they are not specifically trying to hurt gaming performance - but the nature of a flat rate plan means that the shaping has to be pretty all encompassing or else someone will figure out how to tunnel media/P2P through anything that's left unshaped.

As I have said before, and as I imagine the helpdesk will tell you - if high speed or great performance in gaming is a priority, there are more suitable plans available.

Unfortunately, hoping for a flat rate plan for $60/month with awesome performance won't make it happen.

Cheers - N




--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.




51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  # 266896 26-Oct-2009 15:29
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talkiet, it is not all emcompasing, I base this on the fact that certain games, expecialy games hosted by ncsoft that are of mmorpg nature have terrible ping, I have pinged there servers multiple times with what nc soft requested I ping there servers with and this is what they concluded

You are dealing with massive amounts of packetloss throughout your entire connection on your ISP's end. You will need to contact your ISP and let them know that we have noticed packetloss, and there should be none. Feel free to send them the PingPlotter results if needed. If your ISP asks for an IP address to trace to, they can run a test to the IP 216.107.245.108

I am also noticing high latency at your DSL router of about 90ms. They may need to investigate this as well,

if I personaly ping it using cmd pinging I get 100% packet loss as of today and requests timed out all the time.



now other games such as counter strike source, perfect ping, even to servers hosted in and around were ncsoft hosts theres, and cod4 servers are even better.

the bottem line atm is they would much rather I change plans than to fix this issue, I meen wtf. is it so hard to reduce the shaping on ports 80 and 3112 or on packets goin to and from the ip range that I posted?

8034 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 266924 26-Oct-2009 16:38
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wreck90: I see this is in the mainstream media now.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2998795/Telecom-broadband-plan-unusable-for-gaming


Andrew Gall, also on Big Time, says performance has improved and the problem seems to be fixed, but latency ? the time it takes data to travel between servers ? on the plan was "way higher than it should be".

"Normal" latency is about 40 milliseconds, but latency for traffic from Europe has been about 600-700 milliseconds, he says.


THis guy is implying normal international latency to Europe is 40ms. But, I cannot even get that inside NZ .


The quote is completely wrong, normal latency is more like this:

NZ <50ms
AU 50-100ms
US 150-250ms
UK 300ms+

4201 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 266927 26-Oct-2009 16:44
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c4bb0ose: talkiet, it is not all emcompasing, I base this on the fact that certain games, expecialy games hosted by ncsoft that are of mmorpg nature have terrible ping, I have pinged there servers multiple times with what nc soft requested I ping there servers with and this is what they concluded

You are dealing with massive amounts of packetloss throughout your entire connection on your ISP's end. You will need to contact your ISP and let them know that we have noticed packetloss, and there should be none. Feel free to send them the PingPlotter results if needed. If your ISP asks for an IP address to trace to, they can run a test to the IP 216.107.245.108

I am also noticing high latency at your DSL router of about 90ms. They may need to investigate this as well,

if I personaly ping it using cmd pinging I get 100% packet loss as of today and requests timed out all the time.



now other games such as counter strike source, perfect ping, even to servers hosted in and around were ncsoft hosts theres, and cod4 servers are even better.

the bottem line atm is they would much rather I change plans than to fix this issue, I meen wtf. is it so hard to reduce the shaping on ports 80 and 3112 or on packets goin to and from the ip range that I posted?


100% packet loss using ping indicates that someone isn't passing or responging to ICMP echo.

Just like you, I would like a cheap plan with unlimited downloads and no compromises on gaming performance.

But then again, I'd like a Ferrari 430, free fuel and insurance for life, and I'd like to pay only $2499 for it.

Wnating something badly however isn't a good predictor of getting something.

If you would like to PM me details of the packet loss you are seeing, I can ratify it against my connections here at home and possibly forward the details to someone who can look at the loss in more depth.

You also have to understand that generally the network engineers working on the network have a better idea of how their network is performing than some server admins from an MMORPG hosted in the US. I _KNOW_ that this statement will be controversial - but on the whole, it's true.

I have seen the high latency of 90ms at the router in multiple instances across the country and across ISPs and it's an artifact. It's not something to worry about. Try a tracert to somewhere beyond the router and you'll note that from hop 2 or 3 onwards, the times are back down to sensible numbers.

Finally, you should take my hint and look into MMORPG performance and delayed ACKs.

Regards
N




--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


141 posts

Master Geek

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  # 266998 26-Oct-2009 19:15
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Hmm I have also started getting some bad shaping on wow (massice latancey start up have to reconnect a number of times, trace report lags out at the nz gateways, also lag during play) and my downloads are slow 24/7 instead of peak and off peak. I have raised a case with the help desk so I'll see what happens.





Any views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of my employer Telecom NZ

3876 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 267035 26-Oct-2009 20:54
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wreck90: I see this is in the mainstream media now.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2998795/Telecom-broadband-plan-unusable-for-gaming


Andrew Gall, also on Big Time, says performance has improved and the problem seems to be fixed, but latency ? the time it takes data to travel between servers ? on the plan was "way higher than it should be".

"Normal" latency is about 40 milliseconds, but latency for traffic from Europe has been about 600-700 milliseconds, he says.


THis guy is implying normal international latency to Europe is 40ms. But, I cannot even get that inside NZ .


What I said was that I normally got a ~40ms ping to aussie servers(Internode/Cybergamer), and 300 to London (Eve Online), which were respecitvely topping 200ms and 600ms during the worst of the recent severe shaping. I'm not sure if Claire misheard me, misunderstood me, or if some editor f*cked it up. She may well comment as she is a member and obviously follows threads here as she contacted me via PM after I posted a few times in now locked BigTime thread.

My 2 cents.








Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


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