Telecom Big Time plan trouble thread

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Telecom Big Time plan trouble thread

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722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#267045 26-Oct-2009 21:12

What id like to see is a different prospective on all this.

It seems to be negative after negative directed at telecom.

Lets not forget that before now there was no unlimited plan for anywhere near $70/month.

Lets also not forget that this is using a heavy amount of cacheing which is some thing new (ish) to the New Zealand market.

They are going to have bugs, like any other plan and to me they seem to be fixing them resonably fast.

Kudo's to Telcom for bringing us a brilliant plan, they seem to be taking a different prospective to things when other provides are just going through the motions.

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c4bb0ose

51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#267095 26-Oct-2009 23:51

I would tell you how much I am not happy with telecom right now but I wont i will just say my thread needs to have a bit more logic in it, and a lot less raging from me and others :< but mainly me...

Talkiet:
c4bb0ose: talkiet, it is not all emcompasing, I base this on the fact that certain games, expecialy games hosted by ncsoft that are of mmorpg nature have terrible ping, I have pinged there servers multiple times with what nc soft requested I ping there servers with and this is what they concluded

You are dealing with massive amounts of packetloss throughout your entire connection on your ISP's end. You will need to contact your ISP and let them know that we have noticed packetloss, and there should be none. Feel free to send them the PingPlotter results if needed. If your ISP asks for an IP address to trace to, they can run a test to the IP 216.107.245.108

I am also noticing high latency at your DSL router of about 90ms. They may need to investigate this as well,

if I personaly ping it using cmd pinging I get 100% packet loss as of today and requests timed out all the time.

now other games such as counter strike source, perfect ping, even to servers hosted in and around were ncsoft hosts theres, and cod4 servers are even better.

the bottem line atm is they would much rather I change plans than to fix this issue, I meen wtf. is it so hard to reduce the shaping on ports 80 and 3112 or on packets goin to and from the ip range that I posted?

100% packet loss using ping indicates that someone isn't passing or responging to ICMP echo.

Just like you, I would like a cheap plan with unlimited downloads and no compromises on gaming performance.

But then again, I'd like a Ferrari 430, free fuel and insurance for life, and I'd like to pay only $2499 for it.

Wnating something badly however isn't a good predictor of getting something.

If you would like to PM me details of the packet loss you are seeing, I can ratify it against my connections here at home and possibly forward the details to someone who can look at the loss in more depth.

You also have to understand that generally the network engineers working on the network have a better idea of how their network is performing than some server admins from an MMORPG hosted in the US. I _KNOW_ that this statement will be controversial - but on the whole, it's true.

I have seen the high latency of 90ms at the router in multiple instances across the country and across ISPs and it's an artifact. It's not something to worry about. Try a tracert to somewhere beyond the router and you'll note that from hop 2 or 3 onwards, the times are back down to sensible numbers.

Finally, you should take my hint and look into MMORPG performance and delayed ACKs.

Regards
N

well my previous post seemd to have lost itself in cyber space so Ill repost what i said quickly

I have pmed u concerning my ping etc and apoligised for attacking you for no reasen

I have done some light reading and found out that mmorpgs use TCP , torrents use TCP ,telecom is shaping torrents heavily. can telecoms shaping system tell the difference between a torrent packet and a mmorpg packet? idk possible problem there.

also on acks um ill talk about that tomorro this is a reminder for me to :<

cr250bromo

222 posts

Master Geek

#267118 27-Oct-2009 09:11

I agree with ArcticSilver's comments.

also, if it's so easy to provide quality flat rate DSL, then why aren't the other ISPs doing it?

suiko

13 posts

Geek

#267355 27-Oct-2009 17:41

I too have had the same problem with Xtra and WoW lately. It all began about a month ago - before I switched to BigTime - when I was still a Go Large customer. It seemed as soon as xtra 'upgraded' everyone to ADSL2+ and released the new plans that WoW started getting ridiculous 10-20k latencies/packetloss so bad that the game disconnects repeatedly. I did hope that switching to BigTime would fix the new issue but it seems to have had no effect (maybe it even made things worse)

As far as I know, MMORPGs only need a small amount of bandwidth (that ends up totalling 30MB or something per hour?) yet even this relatively insignificant amount of traffic is shaped to such extremes that the $30 per month to play WoW is just throwing money away. I'm currently using the free PTR realms to test latency and playability but it's awful.

Oh, also, sometimes in the mornings the latency is a perfect ~250ish and is stable while at other times it's ridiculous so I'm fairly certain it's something to do with the shaping

c4bb0ose

51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#267363 27-Oct-2009 18:02

suiko: I too have had the same problem with Xtra and WoW lately. It all began about a month ago - before I switched to BigTime - when I was still a Go Large customer. It seemed as soon as xtra 'upgraded' everyone to ADSL2+ and released the new plans that WoW started getting ridiculous 10-20k latencies/packetloss so bad that the game disconnects repeatedly. I did hope that switching to BigTime would fix the new issue but it seems to have had no effect (maybe it even made things worse)

As far as I know, MMORPGs only need a small amount of bandwidth (that ends up totalling 30MB or something per hour?) yet even this relatively insignificant amount of traffic is shaped to such extremes that the $30 per month to play WoW is just throwing money away. I'm currently using the free PTR realms to test latency and playability but it's awful.

Oh, also, sometimes in the mornings the latency is a perfect ~250ish and is stable while at other times it's ridiculous so I'm fairly certain it's something to do with the shaping

yes well somethings going wring some were and from what Im seeing with my game, both isp and game provider are currently blaming eachother, but only ones got reasonable grounds to atm and that is telecom, that is as far as I no, whos lieing? idk, is it both? idk, really I just would liek the issue sorted asap here that telecom? sort it asap :<

Ragnor

8085 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#267379 27-Oct-2009 18:25

What is quite likely happening with TCP/IP based mmorg games like WoW is that they are currently being categorised in something like a p2p/filesharing/unidentified-traffic bandwidth pool that has low priority.

Games like wow can at times use ~30 KB/s of sustained bandwidth (in crowded areas/raids whatever..) so in peak time you're seeing these problems with delay and latency.

The problem with FPS games (ie: UDP based games) was fixed because a lot of gamers reported the problem using the proper feedback mechanisms eg: ringing up the help desk to report the issue and using the contact form here: http://telecom.custhelp.com/app/ask

I know a lot of people included tracerts, pings and details of what was happening and when. I think this is the best way to raise awareness of the issue with the powers that be and get wheels in motion working on a fix.

This is what mmorpg gamers should be doing.. will be even easier for you guys since Telecom employers appear to be reading this and other threads and the mainstream media is reporting on the issue too.

c4bb0ose

51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#267388 27-Oct-2009 18:41

Ragnor: What is quite likely happening with TCP/IP based mmorg games like WoW is that they are currently being categorised in something like a p2p/filesharing/unidentified-traffic bandwidth pool that has low priority.

Games like wow can at times use ~30 KB/s of sustained bandwidth (in crowded areas/raids whatever..) so in peak time you're seeing these problems with delay and latency.

The problem with FPS games (ie: UDP based games) was fixed because a lot of gamers reported the problem using the proper feedback mechanisms eg: ringing up the help desk to report the issue and using the contact form here: http://telecom.custhelp.com/app/ask

I know a lot of people included tracerts, pings and details of what was happening and when. I think this is the best way to raise awareness of the issue with the powers that be and get wheels in motion working on a fix.

This is what mmorpg gamers should be doing.. will be even easier for you guys since Telecom employers appear to be reading this and other threads and the mainstream media is reporting on the issue too.

main stream media? oh right :S are they getting a grilling atm? kind of my bad atm eh :<

well I have sent an email to were you suggested I send one fingures crossed I get some one who can sort things out.

doozy

245 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#267392 27-Oct-2009 18:48

c4bb0ose:
Ragnor: What is quite likely happening with TCP/IP based mmorg games like WoW is that they are currently being categorised in something like a p2p/filesharing/unidentified-traffic bandwidth pool that has low priority.

Games like wow can at times use ~30 KB/s of sustained bandwidth (in crowded areas/raids whatever..) so in peak time you're seeing these problems with delay and latency.

The problem with FPS games (ie: UDP based games) was fixed because a lot of gamers reported the problem using the proper feedback mechanisms eg: ringing up the help desk to report the issue and using the contact form here: http://telecom.custhelp.com/app/ask

I know a lot of people included tracerts, pings and details of what was happening and when. I think this is the best way to raise awareness of the issue with the powers that be and get wheels in motion working on a fix.

This is what mmorpg gamers should be doing.. will be even easier for you guys since Telecom employers appear to be reading this and other threads and the mainstream media is reporting on the issue too.

main stream media? oh right :S are they getting a grilling atm? kind of my bad atm eh :<

well I have sent an email to were you suggested I send one fingures crossed I get some one who can sort things out.

or, you could just pm this info to me as if you send it to that it'll end up with me, eventually ... so cut out the middle work? I've already said we're working on it, assuming its a magic button or as simple as turning something on/off is wrong, its just not that easy - if you NEED great ping/latency for international gaming, I'm just not sure Big Time is the right plan for you

Tarawera Ultra 2015 done, bring on 2016

Lias

5223 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#267408 27-Oct-2009 19:11

Just FWIW, whilst not as bad as at first, I've started seeing increased pings again during primetime on all international traffic.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

suiko

13 posts

Geek

#267409 27-Oct-2009 19:11

Hey doozy-if that's the case, is there anything else we can do to assist you in fixing the problem? I do expect to have a sub-optimal ping to international servers because I'm on BigTime I just don't expect over 1000ms, let alone 10k+(when the good days can be 250ms)

In particular, this hop seems to be pretty nasty and persistent i.e.

6 60 ms 60 ms * ae1-10.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.37]
7 187 ms 188 ms 195 ms so6-1-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.62]

and that's when there's still a few nz gateway hops to go..

ArcticSilver

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#267415 27-Oct-2009 19:27

suiko: Hey doozy-if that's the case, is there anything else we can do to assist you in fixing the problem? I do expect to have a sub-optimal ping to international servers because I'm on BigTime I just don't expect over 1000ms, let alone 10k+(when the good days can be 250ms)

In particular, this hop seems to be pretty nasty and persistent i.e.

6 60 ms 60 ms * ae1-10.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.37]
7 187 ms 188 ms 195 ms so6-1-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.62]

and that's when there's still a few nz gateway hops to go..

Its not quite as simple as add and subtract with trace routes.

The parts shown are not a lot of help, a whole trace route would be far better.

As for the pings i promised above, they are coming, Ive just been a bit busy lately.

c4bb0ose

51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#267418 27-Oct-2009 19:37

suiko: Hey doozy-if that's the case, is there anything else we can do to assist you in fixing the problem? I do expect to have a sub-optimal ping to international servers because I'm on BigTime I just don't expect over 1000ms, let alone 10k+(when the good days can be 250ms)

In particular, this hop seems to be pretty nasty and persistent i.e.

6 60 ms 60 ms * ae1-10.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.37]
7 187 ms 188 ms 195 ms so6-1-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.62]

and that's when there's still a few nz gateway hops to go..

orly ping stuffs aye? I can do that :)

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=tmemtxtmydz&thumb=5

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=qynenymtjut&thumb=5

I can do it to any ip, but this is the sserver ip that I have high ping on so It made sense to do this, i have already had this looked at and from that persons perspective it's something to do with my game servers.

ArcticSilver

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#267421 27-Oct-2009 19:48

c4bb0ose:
suiko: Hey doozy-if that's the case, is there anything else we can do to assist you in fixing the problem? I do expect to have a sub-optimal ping to international servers because I'm on BigTime I just don't expect over 1000ms, let alone 10k+(when the good days can be 250ms)

In particular, this hop seems to be pretty nasty and persistent i.e.

6 60 ms 60 ms * ae1-10.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.37]
7 187 ms 188 ms 195 ms so6-1-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.62]

and that's when there's still a few nz gateway hops to go..

orly ping stuffs aye? I can do that :)

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=tmemtxtmydz&thumb=5

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=qynenymtjut&thumb=5

I can do it to any ip, but this is the sserver ip that I have high ping on so It made sense to do this, i have already had this looked at and from that persons perspective it's something to do with my game servers.

NCSoft's firewalls drop IMCP packets so your pings will not get through.

Also realise your ping seems to be fine to the US, but remember ping is not TCP.

The most likely cause of this is the shaping equipment picking up the TCP packets and lowering its priority when in fact we want it high (for a low ping). This will not appear in a ping or trace route. It will only appear while using TCP (so in game).

c4bb0ose

51 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#267429 27-Oct-2009 20:12

ArcticSilver:
c4bb0ose:
suiko: Hey doozy-if that's the case, is there anything else we can do to assist you in fixing the problem? I do expect to have a sub-optimal ping to international servers because I'm on BigTime I just don't expect over 1000ms, let alone 10k+(when the good days can be 250ms)

In particular, this hop seems to be pretty nasty and persistent i.e.

6 60 ms 60 ms * ae1-10.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.37]
7 187 ms 188 ms 195 ms so6-1-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.62]

and that's when there's still a few nz gateway hops to go..

orly ping stuffs aye? I can do that :)

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=tmemtxtmydz&thumb=5

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=qynenymtjut&thumb=5

I can do it to any ip, but this is the sserver ip that I have high ping on so It made sense to do this, i have already had this looked at and from that persons perspective it's something to do with my game servers.

NCSoft's firewalls drop IMCP packets so your pings will not get through.

Also realise your ping seems to be fine to the US, but remember ping is not TCP.

The most likely cause of this is the shaping equipment picking up the TCP packets and lowering its priority when in fact we want it high (for a low ping). This will not appear in a ping or trace route. It will only appear while using TCP (so in game).

yeh, I no but bleh id happily video my ping for half an hour ingame while showing off the affects rubberbanding around the game environment has on gameplay but they probebly wouldnt bother with it?

ArcticSilver

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#267451 27-Oct-2009 20:55

c4bb0ose:
ArcticSilver:
c4bb0ose:
suiko: Hey doozy-if that's the case, is there anything else we can do to assist you in fixing the problem? I do expect to have a sub-optimal ping to international servers because I'm on BigTime I just don't expect over 1000ms, let alone 10k+(when the good days can be 250ms)

In particular, this hop seems to be pretty nasty and persistent i.e.

6 60 ms 60 ms * ae1-10.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.37]
7 187 ms 188 ms 195 ms so6-1-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.62]

and that's when there's still a few nz gateway hops to go..

orly ping stuffs aye? I can do that :)

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=tmemtxtmydz&thumb=5

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=qynenymtjut&thumb=5

I can do it to any ip, but this is the sserver ip that I have high ping on so It made sense to do this, i have already had this looked at and from that persons perspective it's something to do with my game servers.

NCSoft's firewalls drop IMCP packets so your pings will not get through.

Also realise your ping seems to be fine to the US, but remember ping is not TCP.

The most likely cause of this is the shaping equipment picking up the TCP packets and lowering its priority when in fact we want it high (for a low ping). This will not appear in a ping or trace route. It will only appear while using TCP (so in game).

yeh, I no but bleh id happily video my ping for half an hour ingame while showing off the affects rubberbanding around the game environment has on gameplay but they probebly wouldnt bother with it?

The best thing ti do is test your pings at various times in game using the /ping command (morning, afternoon and night) and post your results here. This would help determine if the issue is confined to a certan period of time.

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