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Detruire
1399 posts

Uber Geek


  #306909 13-Mar-2010 15:37
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Driftdamage: Are you guys now shaping encrypted traffic to try stop the people using tunnels to get around the shaping? I notice gmail is very slow, it was unusable when my brother was staying here last week.

It's been like this for months.




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Driftdamage
62 posts

Master Geek


  #306910 13-Mar-2010 15:38
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Detruire:
Driftdamage: Are you guys now shaping encrypted traffic to try stop the people using tunnels to get around the shaping? I notice gmail is very slow, it was unusable when my brother was staying here last week.

It's been like this for months.


Weird, when I first got on the plan mid Jan it seemed to be working fine

Sheagae
193 posts

Master Geek


  #306911 13-Mar-2010 15:41
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Driftdamage:
Detruire:
Driftdamage: Are you guys now shaping encrypted traffic to try stop the people using tunnels to get around the shaping? I notice gmail is very slow, it was unusable when my brother was staying here last week.

It's been like this for months.


Weird, when I first got on the plan mid Jan it seemed to be working fine

Gmail, along with other https sites are shaped (crippled).



DravidDavid
1907 posts

Uber Geek


  #306912 13-Mar-2010 16:15
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Change GMail to the old http version.
You get less eye candy but it works just as well as any other website would.

Oh, and my interleaving gets switched off mondey evening.  *crosses fingers*

System
521 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #306922 13-Mar-2010 17:07
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Yeah I have been having issues with gmail also, only in the evenings mainly though




PC: 3.3ghz Core i5-2500, 8gb DDR3, ATI Radeon 5850, 27" QHD IPS Monitor

Mobile Phone: iPhone 5 32gb Graphite.


BigMal
975 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #306936 13-Mar-2010 18:46
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Yup, Gmail is painfully slow and PS3 has been unusable for months.  

System
521 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #306948 13-Mar-2010 19:39
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Xbox is usually fine for online play but downloads are painful also




PC: 3.3ghz Core i5-2500, 8gb DDR3, ATI Radeon 5850, 27" QHD IPS Monitor

Mobile Phone: iPhone 5 32gb Graphite.




Ragnor
8065 posts

Uber Geek

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  #306973 13-Mar-2010 21:47
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tunafish: If Telecom implemented streaming media cache the ability to give 100Gig a month would work, as most of the content would be delivered from this cache in NZ without the international transit costs, and delivered fast end of story.


Caching hardware is not free.. if you break down the costs it still has a price per Mbit/s served, not as much dedicated international bandwidth per Mbit but not $0 either as you seem to imply.

tunafish
93 posts

Master Geek


  #307060 14-Mar-2010 12:43

Nothing is free, but caching does cost less then international transit, as for caching everthing well 50 or 100 Terrabytes represents a lot of content and would certonly represent the 75% plus range of content that users would want. As often said the smaller guys always try the hardest for their customers, the big guys will spend money on TV ads telling their customers they can deliver. I am sure when I say this "TV ads are expensive".

Mooseboy
124 posts

Master Geek


  #307075 14-Mar-2010 13:10
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Ubuntu torrent download speed - averages about 500kB/s even at peak time.
Ubuntu standard download speed- no more than 5kB/s

Hmmm, so much for throttling...

DravidDavid
1907 posts

Uber Geek


  #307082 14-Mar-2010 13:47
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Mooseboy: Ubuntu torrent download speed - averages about 500kB/s even at peak time.
Ubuntu standard download speed- no more than 5kB/s

Hmmm, so much for throttling...


I know.

I just qued one of mine and it is flying right now.  But before when I tried using Ventrilo or playing a game...they were both unusable.

Hmph.

System
521 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #307094 14-Mar-2010 15:07
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I think if anything that should be reversed, torrents should be throttled more than other general downloads, and earlier it was stated the the problem with gaming was it appears similar to P2P in terms of throttling, how if this is true is it that gaming is
painfully slow at times and torrents are pretty much unthrottled?




PC: 3.3ghz Core i5-2500, 8gb DDR3, ATI Radeon 5850, 27" QHD IPS Monitor

Mobile Phone: iPhone 5 32gb Graphite.


DravidDavid
1907 posts

Uber Geek


  #307103 14-Mar-2010 15:55
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It seems backwards to me too.

Games use next to nothing in terms of bandwidth.  I game a 100 or so hours on 1GB.  But I can't play a 10 year old game without dropping out because of leechers ripping thousands of gigs 24/7.

Torrents are Telecoms worst enemy on this plan.  They should throttle them so they get nothing during the day.

ArcticSilver
715 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #307106 14-Mar-2010 16:24
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DravidDavid: It seems backwards to me too.

Games use next to nothing in terms of bandwidth.  I game a 100 or so hours on 1GB.  But I can't play a 10 year old game without dropping out because of leechers ripping thousands of gigs 24/7.

Torrents are Telecoms worst enemy on this plan.  They should throttle them so they get nothing during the day.


Its not quite that simple.

Let me explain.....

Itll be like this (or some thing simular/along the same principle):

Telecom has a international connection of say 1GB/s. This is for all their customers. They pay for the speed rather than per gb like we do at home.

Big time will probibly have a contention ratio. Think of a contention ratio as yourself being limited to a percentage of the available bandwidth.

Lets say its 5% of the available bandwidth. On a 100mbps line at the peak (where all of the 100mbps is being used) the big time pool will get 5mbps. Yet off peak where only say 50mbps is being used big time users can have from a minimum of 5mbps up to the free amount (so 5-50mbps) shared between them.

Thats why it is better off peak vs on peak. This is also why there isnt such a need for shaping off peak. The problem is the speed at peak time where there is no free bandwidth they must prioritise non big time users.

So the 1000's of GB's doesnt matter as long as its off peak where there is speed to spare.


Also it has been discussed many times eariler.

They do not deliberately shape gaming traffic. They are trying to shape just the heavy use applications.

The problem is making the rules that will only do one vs the other.


For example:

Lets say i was to create a rule for torrenting. I could:

Shape the common ports - The down side is some one will just change them and avoid the shaping.
Shape the number of connections - Suddenly any peer to peer application suffers including Modern Warfare 2

Its easy to know what you want but its a lot harder to impliment it.

Also there is a couple of telecom employees that surf this forum that have been extremely helpful. I couldnt be much happier. Oh and Gmail is now loading perfectly for me.

Ragnor
8065 posts

Uber Geek

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  #307108 14-Mar-2010 16:27
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tunafish: Nothing is free, but caching does cost less then international transit, as for caching everthing well 50 or 100 Terrabytes represents a lot of content and would certonly represent the 75% plus range of content that users would want. As often said the smaller guys always try the hardest for their customers, the big guys will spend money on TV ads telling their customers they can deliver. I am sure when I say this "TV ads are expensive".


So switch to Slingshot then, but they don't offer an unlimited plan.. only free offpeak which is less convenient and more expensive.

There's no question Big Time's shaping rules are imperfect, actually in some cases Go Large's rules were better (single threaded international http connections for example) but there is still no cheaper plan for any household/flat with multiple users.

Also bear in mind caching isn't going to help with encrypted bit torrent or https downloads.  If you are using p2p unencrypted and rapidshare/megaupload without https it's going to be fun when you start recieving copyright infringement notices....


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