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63 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 282302 14-Dec-2009 14:14
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Well this isn't good enough man it keeps happening i am trying be understanding about the Current Situation but come on this isn't the first time it's a 500 million dollar network.

I Would really like to know what Exactly Broke down.

I Woke up This Morning Looked at my nokia mobile phone and there was no signal showing Witch Basicly Means "No Service" then i went to work Still No Service that made bussiness hard.
After work i went to the Telecom Store there was no service inside the store i asked the guy at the counter he said the network had been down sens 3am this morning and there was nothing they could do to help.
went home and called telecom Customer Sevice on our landline phone and i got the message that all Customers South of Tupo had Been Affected.

telecom never gave me 10 dollars free credit for the outage Grrr.

Telecom Network Xt Faster In More Places ( How can it Be Faster if we can't even get Network Coverage)

I Have got to Say im One Upset Telecom Xt Customer

62 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 282304 14-Dec-2009 14:15
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gingereejit:

I'm not quite sure which part of the article alludes to TNZ said the issue was within their control - it refers often to a 'uplanned restart of the RNC' - which to me sounds like something they had not planned for.


If bus full of zebras, escaping from Orana Park has driven through a gate and then the side of the RNC building, causing an unplanned restart, then that would not be in their control.

Poor planning on the other hand, leading to the restart is entirely within their control.

 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek

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  Reply # 282305 14-Dec-2009 14:17
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Behodar:
BaaaaD: Yay... Telecom just given all prepaid and on account XT network users $10 credit.

Is this documented somewhere?



I do hope so :)

$10 on my tstick 
$10 on my mobile


+ $10 for registering my Tstick = AWESOME!!!!!!
Almost paid for Jan holiday data




I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 

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  Reply # 282309 14-Dec-2009 14:18
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Vodafone NZ already have 6 RNCs in service the latest is in the Waikato

John

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 282311 14-Dec-2009 14:20
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Wellington CBD Just went online - Phones all around me sprung into life.

Ironic My WM device detected an O2UK sim card when it came back online however.

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  Reply # 282312 14-Dec-2009 14:22
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exportgoldman:Vodafone, by contrast, has five, with a sixth coming on stream during summer."


Vodafone NZ now have 6 RNCs online the latest is in the Waikato and the first lot of 3G sites were migrated over a few weeks back

John

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 282317 14-Dec-2009 14:29

exportgoldman:
BaaaaD: Yay... Telecom just given all prepaid and on account XT network users $10 credit.


From memory XT has 100,000 customers so thats a million dollar credit, plus the toll revenue lost, plus additional credit's to corporate customers plus loss of reputation etc.

How to lose a few million dollars on a Monday morning. The worse I did this morning was spill my coffee in the car :)


This is interesting from NBR http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/massive-outage-reveals-xt-s-achilles-heel-116425

"Telecom has two RNCs - one for Taupo and north, the other for everything south of Taupo, with no redundancy. Vodafone, by contrast, has five, with a sixth coming on stream during summer."

I wonder why Telecom decided it could get by with 1/3 of what Vodafone have as RNC's, unless they have duplicate RNC's for the 2G and 3G networks?

Although I don't believe that NBR is right in argueing that not keeping a 2G network around incase the 3G network is down is XT's 'achilles heel'



Cost?

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  Reply # 282318 14-Dec-2009 14:31
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johnr:
exportgoldman:Vodafone, by contrast, has five, with a sixth coming on stream during summer."


Vodafone NZ now have 6 RNCs online the latest is in the Waikato and the first lot of 3G sites were migrated over a few weeks back

John


Do Vodafone's RNC's handle 2G and 3G data or do you have seperate RNC's for each network?

i.e. 2 RNC's for 3G for Telecom would be inline with Vodafone if you guys had 3 RNC's for 2G and 2 for 3G but it is shocking if you have 6 RNC's for 2G/3G and Telecom have 2?

Oh, and that quote was the NBR :) Not me




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

62 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 282319 14-Dec-2009 14:31
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arguably the achillies heel on not having 2G is handset choice.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 282321 14-Dec-2009 14:34
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johnr: Vodafone NZ already have 6 RNCs in service the latest is in the Waikato

John


So the obvious conclusion is that Telecom has opted for a 2 RNC system, which has now cost them serveral million in compensation, millions in lost client revenue and various other costs. Seems the added investment may have reduced the fall out and produced a more stable network.

The CDMA system and 025 had three switches (non technical version) it would seem that if Telecom wanted to play the same game as Vodafone, network of similar size maybe they should have had a larger network infrastructure in place. 3 or 4 RNC like Vodafone.

Fibre backhaul all over the place and HSPA/HSPA+ speeds (soon) are not much good if your system is governed by the performance of only two RNC for the entire nation.

This does not put the investment decisions made by Telecom in a good light.... Vodafone will certainly & rightfully hold there heads a little higher as the foresight & past experiences have lead them to invest more heavily in there core network than Telecom





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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 282322 14-Dec-2009 14:38
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zonky: arguably the achillies heel on not having 2G is handset choice.


Not to mention the fact that Telecom really didnt have a choice, there original plan of 850GSM was not feasible with WCDMA in the same band when they had a maxed out CDMA system also in the same band.






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Master Geek
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  Reply # 282323 14-Dec-2009 14:38
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In any case - I imagine Vodafone is loving every minute of it. Esp with news agencies pointing out aspects of their network that are superior.

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  Reply # 282324 14-Dec-2009 14:39
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exportgoldman:
I wonder why Telecom decided it could get by with 1/3 of what Vodafone have as RNC's, unless they have duplicate RNC's for the 2G and 3G networks?



RNC's themselves don't exist within 2G GSM networks, there are multiple components in a GSM network that handle the same roles.

A single RNC could handle all of NZ, as I mentioned earlier the capacity of an RNC is far greater than the population in NZ. I was told the new China Unicom WCDMA rollout will support 10,000,000+ users per RNC.

Telecom have 2 RNC's which is plenty of capacity to support all of NZ, it's just unfortunate that one failed. If they had 4 RNC's and 1 failed an outage would still occur, it just wouldn't cover the same area.


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  Reply # 282325 14-Dec-2009 14:45
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zonky: arguably the achillies heel on not having 2G is handset choice.


Why? Every WCDMA handset supports GSM, there would be no handset issues.

GSM is *not* a backup for WCDMA. I wish people could get this out of their heads.

The question would be why you would build two networks. Vodafone are lucky there is still a lot of separation between their GSM and WCDMA networks. Their RNC failures have meant their GSM network has still functioned. There are plenty of single points of failure that would result in both networks going down. Depending on exactly how you look at it you could argue they may have slightly more redundancy but one would argue the odds of Vodafone suffering a significant outage aren't that dissimilair to Telecom.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 282326 14-Dec-2009 14:47
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sbiddle:
exportgoldman:
I wonder why Telecom decided it could get by with 1/3 of what Vodafone have as RNC's, unless they have duplicate RNC's for the 2G and 3G networks?



Telecom have 2 RNC's which is plenty of capacity to support all of NZ, it's just unfortunate that one failed. If they had 4 RNC's and 1 failed an outage would still occur, it just wouldn't cover the same area.



I guess thats the point, it is quite clear that one RNC can support massive numbers of connections, thats why there are single RNC for large Cities of NZ's popularion.

However in NZ we have sparsely populated few Islands and although from a dollars and cents point of view 1 or 2 RNC are fine, 4 or 5 would be better and would protect more of the network from outage.

A whole region such as Canterbury Westland would be acceptable but not 3/4 of the country including the capital city in one whole hit.

Surely Vodafone have sought to invest in this area and they have had there fair share of issues, Telecom must follow and really make its network as bullet proof as technically possible!





www.ultimatebroadband.co.nz 
Delivering better broadband services

UFB fibre, Rural fibre on EA networks, RBI wireless, Ruralnet & Ultra wireless, wireless networks


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