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  #322522 25-Apr-2010 00:24
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quickymart: Nope, no one else does - and every situation is far to different to just apply a blanket discount.

Seriously, 2 Mb/s isn't exactly dialup speed or anything - there are a LOT of rural customers out there who love to even just get 512k.

See Finland for example, they have just over 5 million in population, and they have a Human Right to have a broadband connection of at least 1 MB/s now and 100 Mb/s by 2015.

Telecom seems to have little care for rural customers, yet they seem to monopolize the market.
A lose-lose situation really.

See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html

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  #322526 25-Apr-2010 00:42
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Maybe you should move to Finland?

The reason Telecom have a monopoly is because it is not economic for someone to lay fibre cable, or install roadside cabinets in areas where population density is sparse, and make a return attractive to investors. 

Previously you suggested that you should recieve a discount as your adsl speeds were slower than someone closer to an echange, or roadside cabinet. I would suggest that you should be charged more as more copper cable is required to provide the service to your house, More cabling will over time result in more faults, and so proportionly more of the money we all pay for the service will be spent servicing you.

It's all swings and roundabouts.  Just be thankful you can get any broadband service, as most rural users can't get anything better than dial-up.


 
 
 
 


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  #322538 25-Apr-2010 07:38
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codyc1515:
richms:
johnr:
codyc1515:
johnr: What is wrong with 2mbps down?

What do you think?


Nothing wrong with 2mbps I would happy with 512k up / down


So would I be if it actually delivered it 24/7 and I wasnt being ripped off by paying for data too.

If you are paying premium prices for a connection, it makes sense to expect it. You get no discount because you get crap speeds, you get no cheaper data rates when it takes so long to arrive either.

Paying the same and getting a lot less than other people should piss everyone off.

Indeed, it does annoy me, as I used to get 8 Mb/s sync speeds in town.
Shouldn't I get some sort of 'Disadvanted Rural User discount' or opt to have no ADSL 2+, and get say $5-10 off?


Hang on. Lets go back a few steps. A few days ago you were happy getting 2.5Mbps saying you were happy as you lived 7km from the exchange.

You have to accept that if you live in rural areas that ADSL will not necessarily deliver you the best or fastest broadband. That's something you have to accept.


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  #322540 25-Apr-2010 07:41
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codyc1515:
quickymart: Nope, no one else does - and every situation is far to different to just apply a blanket discount.

Seriously, 2 Mb/s isn't exactly dialup speed or anything - there are a LOT of rural customers out there who love to even just get 512k.

See Finland for example, they have just over 5 million in population, and they have a Human Right to have a broadband connection of at least 1 MB/s now and 100 Mb/s by 2015.

Telecom seems to have little care for rural customers, yet they seem to monopolize the market.
A lose-lose situation really.

See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html


Telecom's problem is they are forced by law to provide phonelines and broadband at the same price in both metropolitan and rural areas. This means upgrading service in rural areas at significant cost and not being able to make a ROI.

The sooner this stupid restriction is removed and rural users have to pay the full cost of providiing them with service the better it will be.

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  #322546 25-Apr-2010 08:17
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sbiddle:
codyc1515:
quickymart: Nope, no one else does - and every situation is far to different to just apply a blanket discount.

Seriously, 2 Mb/s isn't exactly dialup speed or anything - there are a LOT of rural customers out there who love to even just get 512k.

See Finland for example, they have just over 5 million in population, and they have a Human Right to have a broadband connection of at least 1 MB/s now and 100 Mb/s by 2015.

Telecom seems to have little care for rural customers, yet they seem to monopolize the market.
A lose-lose situation really.

See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html


Telecom's problem is they are forced by law to provide phonelines and broadband at the same price in both metropolitan and rural areas. This means upgrading service in rural areas at significant cost and not being able to make a ROI.

The sooner this stupid restriction is removed and rural users have to pay the full cost of providiing them with service the better it will be.


Also you don't see the other ISPs/telcos moving to provide these services, but there isn't anything stoping them.




 

 

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  #322549 25-Apr-2010 08:25
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freitasm:
sbiddle:
codyc1515:
quickymart: Nope, no one else does - and every situation is far to different to just apply a blanket discount.

Seriously, 2 Mb/s isn't exactly dialup speed or anything - there are a LOT of rural customers out there who love to even just get 512k.

See Finland for example, they have just over 5 million in population, and they have a Human Right to have a broadband connection of at least 1 MB/s now and 100 Mb/s by 2015.

Telecom seems to have little care for rural customers, yet they seem to monopolize the market.
A lose-lose situation really.

See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html


Telecom's problem is they are forced by law to provide phonelines and broadband at the same price in both metropolitan and rural areas. This means upgrading service in rural areas at significant cost and not being able to make a ROI.

The sooner this stupid restriction is removed and rural users have to pay the full cost of providiing them with service the better it will be.


Also you don't see the other ISPs/telcos moving to provide these services, but there isn't anything stoping them.


While there was nothing preventing them the TSO obligation forcing other telco's to fund Telecom's loss making residential customers was a serious road block in the way. There was no logical business model to roll out equipment to service customers when you a) Couldn't do this for less than Telecom because b) You were subsidising Telecom's customers!

We now may be seeing the end of TSO rural subsidies, the requirement for Telecom to sell rural sevices at the same price now may have to go as well. Telecom won't be happy not being able to recover the cost of providing services to unprofitable customers if the rest of the industry isn't prepared to pay a subsidy to help fund them.



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  #322550 25-Apr-2010 08:25
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I must admit I was going to post on this last night, but decided I would give it a miss, but not wanting to sound rude, but man you are in Halcombe, you lucky you have a phone let alone DSL, infact is there power there yet.

http://www.chorus.co.nz/f68,15046/15046_Town_list_by_regionFINAL8.9.08.pdf

Here is a link to towns that will have ADSL DSLAMs installed, if you are not in any of those then chances are you are out of luck. This list details towns that will be upgraded to ADSL2+, so that is not to say that ADSL1 is not available to smaller areas, as you obviously are, but as you can imagine to install gear for a location with low line counts is not very cost effective.

I presume you are currently connected back to Marton or Fielding.

Other options are wireless, although speeds may not be much more than you are currently getting.

http://www.airstream.net.nz/page.php?2

The guvment has just put out tenders for ROI for companies to dip into a money trough to deliver fibre to rural schools, and to use those delivery points to provide other wireless or other delivery methods for rural residents, this is a good plan, so maybe one day things might get better, otherwise move.

Cyril

 
 
 
 




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  #322577 25-Apr-2010 09:55
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r33ks: Maybe you should move to Finland?

The reason Telecom have a monopoly is because it is not economic for someone to lay fibre cable, or install roadside cabinets in areas where population density is sparse, and make a return attractive to investors. 

Previously you suggested that you should recieve a discount as your adsl speeds were slower than someone closer to an echange, or roadside cabinet. I would suggest that you should be charged more as more copper cable is required to provide the service to your house, More cabling will over time result in more faults, and so proportionly more of the money we all pay for the service will be spent servicing you.

It's all swings and roundabouts.  Just be thankful you can get any broadband service, as most rural users can't get anything better than dial-up.


I had to pay for all of that trashy-expensive copper to actually get it to my house.
Oh hang on, there a fault on the line.
I wait on hold for 3 months, oh, yep your phones connected.
Um, No its not.

Ring them back, "Oh no, sorry you still have a fault" or "I cant find that here on our system".
(Repeat 8 times for consistency)

4 Months later after paying for and requesting again, and again, I finally get a connection.
Albeit a slow one.

So no I shouldn't be charged more, I had to pay for that copper.

sbiddle:
codyc1515:
quickymart: Nope, no one else does - and every situation is far to different to just apply a blanket discount.

Seriously, 2 Mb/s isn't exactly dialup speed or anything - there are a LOT of rural customers out there who love to even just get 512k.

See Finland for example, they have just over 5 million in population, and they have a Human Right to have a broadband connection of at least 1 MB/s now and 100 Mb/s by 2015.

Telecom seems to have little care for rural customers, yet they seem to monopolize the market.
A lose-lose situation really.

See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html


Telecom's problem is they are forced by law to provide phonelines and broadband at the same price in both metropolitan and rural areas. This means upgrading service in rural areas at significant cost and not being able to make a ROI.

The sooner this stupid restriction is removed and rural users have to pay the full cost of providiing them with service the better it will be.

I'm sure if you lived rurally you would agree, because all Telecom seems to care about is money, and certainly not their customers.

cyril7: I must admit I was going to post on this last night, but decided I would give it a miss, but not wanting to sound rude, but man you are in Halcombe, you lucky you have a phone let alone DSL, infact is there power there yet.

http://www.chorus.co.nz/f68,15046/15046_Town_list_by_regionFINAL8.9.08.pdf

Here is a link to towns that will have ADSL DSLAMs installed, if you are not in any of those then chances are you are out of luck. This list details towns that will be upgraded to ADSL2+, so that is not to say that ADSL1 is not available to smaller areas, as you obviously are, but as you can imagine to install gear for a location with low line counts is not very cost effective.

I presume you are currently connected back to Marton or Fielding.

Other options are wireless, although speeds may not be much more than you are currently getting.

http://www.airstream.net.nz/page.php?2

The guvment has just put out tenders for ROI for companies to dip into a money trough to deliver fibre to rural schools, and to use those delivery points to provide other wireless or other delivery methods for rural residents, this is a good plan, so maybe one day things might get better, otherwise move.

Cyril

Yes I have a Phone, DSL, and Power.
No I'm not on that list.
I am currently looking at setting up a WISP with some equipment I purchased recently.


sbiddle:
codyc1515:
richms:
johnr:
codyc1515:
johnr: What is wrong with 2mbps down?

What do you think?


Nothing wrong with 2mbps I would happy with 512k up / down


So would I be if it actually delivered it 24/7 and I wasnt being ripped off by paying for data too.

If you are paying premium prices for a connection, it makes sense to expect it. You get no discount because you get crap speeds, you get no cheaper data rates when it takes so long to arrive either.

Paying the same and getting a lot less than other people should piss everyone off.

Indeed, it does annoy me, as I used to get 8 Mb/s sync speeds in town.
Shouldn't I get some sort of 'Disadvanted Rural User discount' or opt to have no ADSL 2+, and get say $5-10 off?


Hang on. Lets go back a few steps. A few days ago you were happy getting 2.5Mbps saying you were happy as you lived 7km from the exchange.

You have to accept that if you live in rural areas that ADSL will not necessarily deliver you the best or fastest broadband. That's something you have to accept.


And I was until they slowed it down for some reason, I think it has something todo with the fact they hooked it onto a temporary port on the exchange.

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  #322639 25-Apr-2010 13:56
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codyc1515:
quickymart: Nope, no one else does - and every situation is far to different to just apply a blanket discount.

Seriously, 2 Mb/s isn't exactly dialup speed or anything - there are a LOT of rural customers out there who love to even just get 512k.

See Finland for example, they have just over 5 million in population, and they have a Human Right to have a broadband connection of at least 1 MB/s now and 100 Mb/s by 2015.

Telecom seems to have little care for rural customers, yet they seem to monopolize the market.
A lose-lose situation really.

See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html


Completely different country, different population distribution, different topography/geography...



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  #322644 25-Apr-2010 14:18
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quickymart:
codyc1515:
quickymart: Nope, no one else does - and every situation is far to different to just apply a blanket discount.

Seriously, 2 Mb/s isn't exactly dialup speed or anything - there are a LOT of rural customers out there who love to even just get 512k.

See Finland for example, they have just over 5 million in population, and they have a Human Right to have a broadband connection of at least 1 MB/s now and 100 Mb/s by 2015.

Telecom seems to have little care for rural customers, yet they seem to monopolize the market.
A lose-lose situation really.

See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html


Completely different country, different population distribution, different topography/geography...

Completely don't care... Laughing

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  #322658 25-Apr-2010 14:37
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Then why mention it as a comparison? I don't see your point.

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  #322669 25-Apr-2010 14:57
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I'm not going to quote your post codyc1515 but the simple answer is no, I would not disagree if I had to pay more in a rural area for a telephone service.

You completely ignore the fact that providing service to rural areas has an added cost. This is why things like petrol and groceries costs more in places than they do in others.

Upgrading equipment to provide you with a service comes at a significant cost. Right now you should be thanking Vodafone, TelstarClear, WorldxChange, CallPlus, Woosh and a few others for the fact you pay the same price for your landline as somebody in the City. If you're in one of the areas that won't receive an upgrade then odds are you are one of Telecom's "unprofitable" customers so each one of these other telco's subsidises Telecom so they can continute to offer you a service.




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  #322808 25-Apr-2010 21:25
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I agree with sbiddle

If you live in an unprofitable area, the TSO mandates that Telecom must be reimbursed by other companies such as Vodafone and Telstra Clear - even if you are not one of their customers, for the cost of maintaining your line.

There are extra costs involved in providing you broadband, and others are paying for this extra cost while you pay the same.

Chances are also you are on a mini-dslam or conklin dslam that is fed by an ATM circut or radio to an older PCM cabinet.
I am quite sure that if telecom wasnt mandated by the TSO to provide unprofitable areas with a landline, they wouldnt. Let alone broadband. They would probably rather people in these areas go to Farmside and pay for satelite.





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For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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  #322893 26-Apr-2010 09:37
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quickymart:
codyc1515:
quickymart: Nope, no one else does - and every situation is far to different to just apply a blanket discount.

Seriously, 2 Mb/s isn't exactly dialup speed or anything - there are a LOT of rural customers out there who love to even just get 512k.

See Finland for example, they have just over 5 million in population, and they have a Human Right to have a broadband connection of at least 1 MB/s now and 100 Mb/s by 2015.

Telecom seems to have little care for rural customers, yet they seem to monopolize the market.
A lose-lose situation really.

See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html


Completely different country, different population distribution, different topography/geography...


actually finland has quite a similar geography and population distribution to NZ.
(lots of other stuff is very different though)

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  #323144 26-Apr-2010 17:55
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NonprayingMantis:

actually finland has quite a similar geography and population distribution to NZ.
(lots of other stuff is very different though)


I would imagine they are much closer to some large data pipes or they have more competition for international transit in europe - and they would also have alot of local traffic for non-english websites that cater to the local people. Where as because we speak english - much of our data needs to travel further to the english websites so more must be spent on international transit.

So what i mean is less spent on international transit means more can be spent on local infrastructure




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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