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cokemaster
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#26303 12-Jan-2006 20:19
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I'm saying IF they had used CDMA instead... Telecom would probably be forced to allow roaming for them.

As for local loop - opening it up would be nice but I don't see it happening given how the government backed down earlier.

I noticed the link was wrong and fixed it.




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Grantis
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#26307 12-Jan-2006 20:32
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cokemaster: I'm saying IF they had used CDMA instead... Telecom would probably be forced to allow roaming for them.

As for local loop - opening it up would be nice but I don't see it happening given how the government backed down earlier.

I noticed the link was wrong and fixed it.


I realise you are speaking hypothetically, but the fact is Econet have announced they are going GSM/UMTS. Personally, I smell a rat & I think this will ultimately be bad news for future investors (& ultimately customers) in New Zealand Telecommunications, both fixed & mobile. To potential investors it gives the very strong impression that the Government are giving Telecom preferential treatment, which will decrease the likelyhood of them investing in NZ.

 
 
 
 


sbiddle
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#26308 12-Jan-2006 20:32
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But therein lies the issue - why should any mobile network operator be forced to offer roaming on their network when the government is so anti the same thing when it comes to the PSTN?

Grantis
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#26309 12-Jan-2006 20:34
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sbiddle: But therein lies the issue - why should any mobile network operator be forced to offer roaming on their network when the government is so anti the same thing when it comes to the PSTN?


Which was exactly my point, did you not read what I just wrote? In case you missed it;

Grantis: IMHO, the NZ Government are being completely two faced about the whole Telecommunications Industry, ie it's ok to "unbundle" in the Mobile networks, but not in the fixed line networks. The whole issue smacks off underhand tactics by Telecom (& a Government with no balls) if you ask me, especially when you consider the letter that Therea Gattung wrote to Paul Swain last year.

Nz_Dude

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#26310 12-Jan-2006 20:43

Ok I know what im going to say is a, off track and b is going to stir up allot of people.

My opinion is if you want to sell a service via a network YOU BUILD THE NETWORK.

Same goes for econet I don’t think voda should have to let them have access to their network and if they do get access I hope Vodafone charge them so much its financially crippling to them that they cant afford to run econet.

Same as Telstra clear. They cry to the government every time they want to launch a new service saying they need access to telecoms network for it. Which they didn’t pay for the building of.

Imagine you buy $50,000 car. You rent it out for $80 a day. Next minute you have a competitor who is allowed to access you car thrash the hell out of it and pay you 40-50 a day for it which degrades YOUR car. Which degrades your customers happiness.

In this case the network would be the car provided by voda or Telecom. And the competitor would be econet or Telstra. Now how would you like that to happen to you.

The nz government need to realise unbundling the local loop isnt the only solution. They need to maybe regulate telecom and Vodafone. Like they are with their call termination rates. I personally hope neither company is forced into letting competitors have access to their network which THEY paid for and if this does happen I wont be supporting those companies in anyway.

Please note this is my ***personal oppinion***

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#26319 12-Jan-2006 21:46
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Nz_Dude: My opinion is if you want to sell a service via a network YOU BUILD THE NETWORK.

This opinion is shared by a number of people here, and is mentioned at least once a month... (its my opinion as well...)







timmyh
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#26345 13-Jan-2006 11:21
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Except where the network in question was paid for over many years by public money, sold off for a song, and is of national strategic importance.

This things are a bit different - and that is the essence of unbundling.

 
 
 
 


Jama
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#26348 13-Jan-2006 12:45
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timmyh you must earn a lot of money to consider $4.25b a song! That is what Ameritech and Bell Atlantic paid the NZ government for Telecom. A lot of money in 1990 which in today's money is probably $10b.

Labour obviously didn't consider Telecom to be that strategically important.

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#26349 13-Jan-2006 12:53
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timmyh: Except where the network in question was paid for over many years by public money, sold off for a song, and is of national strategic importance.

This things are a bit different - and that is the essence of unbundling.

But its been sold... as far as I am aware it was a completely legal business transaction?







sbiddle
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#26351 13-Jan-2006 13:06
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Lets pose another question: Telecom basically established the cost of providing free local calling at around $15 per month. This is the difference between providing their (now non existant) plan with 20c per call and the cost of a regular line rental. Why is it that they will now only discount their line rental by 2% for anybody who wants to resell their service?


Grantis
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#26372 13-Jan-2006 17:50
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Disenchanted:
Nz_Dude: My opinion is if you want to sell a service via a network YOU BUILD THE NETWORK.

This opinion is shared by a number of people here, and is mentioned at least once a month... (its my opinion as well...)


So what your saying is that it's fine for Telecom to hold the country to ransom & continue to offer inflated prices & slow speeds for broadband & expensive fixed line services?

So every other country in the OECD (except for New Zealand) who have either partially or fully implemented Unbundling of the Local Loop (ULL) are wrong?? LOL! You've got to be joking! Hell, even Mexico have started the process of ULL!

The NZ Government have already tried to regulate Telecom & failed. The wholesale UBS is a complete joke (it's still on Telecom's Terms & is just a resold Telecom product) & TUANZ plus many other industry experts are completely behind ULL.

The longer the Government drag their feet, the greater the detrimental effect on the New Zealand economy & decreased prospect of future investment by overseas companies, especially in the Telecommunications sector.

A perfect example of how out of touch with reality Telecom are, is when they think 128kbps is acceptable for upload speed, as an example. :-(

riahon
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#26392 13-Jan-2006 20:38
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Grantis:
Disenchanted:
Nz_Dude: My opinion is if you want to sell a service via a network YOU BUILD THE NETWORK.

This opinion is shared by a number of people here, and is mentioned at least once a month... (its my opinion as well...)


So what your saying is that it's fine for Telecom to hold the country to ransom & continue to offer inflated prices & slow speeds for broadband & expensive fixed line services?

So every other country................


umm dude - your arguement has nothing to do what they were saying.

There may be some merit to your arguements but - if they want to make money, then they should build their own equipment. It would show that they are serious about investing in this country.


Grantis
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#26394 13-Jan-2006 20:56
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riahon:umm dude - your arguement has nothing to do what they were saying.

There may be some merit to your arguements but - if they want to make money, then they should build their own equipment. It would show that they are serious about investing in this country.


My argument (as a whole) has everything to do with what Disenchated & Nz Dude are saying.

The fact is this:

- It is far too expensive for any new company to build a entirely new - fixed line - national network, it won't ever happen. ULL is the most affordable & sensible approach. The time taken to build an entirely new network by a competitor, would put New Zealand even further behind the rest of the world, which we can't afford to do, according to the government.

- Every other country in the OECD has fully or partially ULL, accept New Zealand. Are you saying that they are wrong? Ultimately doing so, will benefit us, the consumer. That's great!

- The majority of Telecommunications experts agree, ULL is the best option, for ease/speed of implementation, apart from Telecom fighting tooth & nail in the courts to stop it.

- New Telcos "can" make money with ULL, building thier own networks would take 5-8 years or more I believe, before they see any profit.


Nz_Dude

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#26397 13-Jan-2006 21:42

Im sorry but as far as im concerned if you dont have enough $$ to build a network sorry you dont deserve to exsist. Im glad the local loop wasnt unbundled because i beleive the network is telecoms propety they paid for it and they pay heaps to maintain it.

Sorry but i dont think we will ever see the local loop unbundled untill ngn but by then everyone would rather be on NGN for its speed. So unless you have the $$$ your out of luck. I know it sucks for consumers but imagine how you would feel if you were telecom or vodafone.


Grantis
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#26399 13-Jan-2006 21:54
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Nz_Dude: Im sorry but as far as im concerned if you dont have enough $$ to build a network sorry you dont deserve to exsist. Im glad the local loop wasnt unbundled because i beleive the network is telecoms propety they paid for it and they pay heaps to maintain it.

Sorry but i dont think we will ever see the local loop unbundled untill ngn but by then everyone would rather be on NGN for its speed. So unless you have the $$$ your out of luck. I know it sucks for consumers but imagine how you would feel if you were telecom or vodafone.



I'm speaking as a consumer, not a greedy Telco. Unless your speaking as a one eyed Telecom supporter, or doesn't think consumers deserve a better deal.

If the government want their Digital Strategy to be introduced by 2010 & to be in the top 25% of the OECD by 2010, then Telecom won't cut the cake.

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