ADSL2+

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Ultimate Geek

#411065 30-Nov-2010 10:45

Ragnor:
kiwipearls:

So he did some fiddling with the profile and turned interleaving on. He said as a WoW player himself, we won't notice the interleaving with servers in the US. So after his fiddle my modem now picks up :

Turning interleaving on is often one of the first troubleshooting steps they take.

However, it most certainly will increase your latency to everywhere by quite a lot.

Lets hope the change of modem chipset solves the issue and you can get interleaving turned back off.

Yeah, well, I have always been told that as a gamer, we should play with Interleaving off. I have had no issues with it off. But he felt, that if the servers were in NZ it would be more beneficial ie if playing something like counterstrike. And that with my servers in the states, I won't notice the 20ms it will add to my latency.

I am IT literate and have my IT diplomas etc, but I am not very competant in explaining myself to other IT people whom I know are more expereienced than I. As it is I had to explain to him how I knew my cabinant number and that it is at the end of my street and that I've been following my ADSL2+ migration for the last two years and get the gossip out of the Chorus men everytime they show up here :D

I've not checked game latency yet this morning and I've played enough over the last few years to know my averages. So will be watching those closely till the new modem arrives.

So you reckon, if my speed is rectified with this new modem, that I should get Interleaving turned back off then?

And I guess if my speed isn't rectified with the new modem, they would acutally have to send a chorus man out to investigate?

"In the real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems" - The Book of Counted Sorrows

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Talkiet

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#411121 30-Nov-2010 12:15

Ragnor: [snip]

Turning interleaving on is often one of the first troubleshooting steps they take. However, it most certainly will increase your latency to everywhere by quite a lot often +100-200ms.

Turning Interleaving on if it's turned straight onto a full depth (16/16) will increase latency by a flat 32ms. If your latency is that variable from enabling interleaving, then I would suspect you have an absolutely massive number of errors on the line.

I believe there are other Interleaving profiles which may add less than 32ms but I'm not sure if they are rolled out (yet/at all) to residential BB connections - at least on Telecom equipment. Other LLU providers are free to set whatever interleaving upstream and downstream depths they desire.

TLDR - Interleaving increases latency by 32ms, not 100-200ms.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

kiwipearls

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Ultimate Geek

#411155 30-Nov-2010 13:03

Talkiet:
Ragnor: [snip]

Turning interleaving on is often one of the first troubleshooting steps they take. However, it most certainly will increase your latency to everywhere by quite a lot often +100-200ms.

Turning Interleaving on if it's turned straight onto a full depth (16/16) will increase latency by a flat 32ms. If your latency is that variable from enabling interleaving, then I would suspect you have an absolutely massive number of errors on the line.

I believe there are other Interleaving profiles which may add less than 32ms but I'm not sure if they are rolled out (yet/at all) to residential BB connections - at least on Telecom equipment. Other LLU providers are free to set whatever interleaving upstream and downstream depths they desire.

TLDR - Interleaving increases latency by 32ms, not 100-200ms.

Cheers - N

He said it would only increase it by about 20ms - so maybe I am on a Interleaving profile which is less.

When I first logged into WoW since Interleaving has been turned on and my profile change. I now noticed, that I get about 1400ms on entering and it takes a good couple of mintues to go down, took 7 mins to go down to a steady 300ms.

This must be due to the interleaving and error packet thingy majiggy he mentioned to me on the phone?

"In the real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems" - The Book of Counted Sorrows

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#411172 30-Nov-2010 13:30

kiwipearls: [snip]

He said it would only increase it by about 20ms - so maybe I am on a Interleaving profile which is less.

When I first logged into WoW since Interleaving has been turned on and my profile change. I now noticed, that I get about 1400ms on entering and it takes a good couple of mintues to go down, took 7 mins to go down to a steady 300ms.

This must be due to the interleaving and error packet thingy majiggy he mentioned to me on the phone?

I was responding to the quote above (by Ragnor) suggesting latency could go up from 100-200ms... 20ms is possible, although unless some has been measuring before and after to essentially the first hop (a BRAS in the case of most Telecom connections for example), they may be seeing variability from sources other than the Interleaving...

You can often (not always) get a good site to check by trying a tracert to somewhere (anywhere - let's say ihug.co.nz) and looking for the first IP address that shows up outside your own home.

Once you have that IP address, try pinging it. It won't always be configured to respond, but if it does, you should get a very consistent ping time... If you then enabled (or disabled) interleaving, this latency should jump up (or down) by about 32ms.

The "latency" in WoW has got almost nothing to do with actual network latency. PLEASE never ever use this as a measure of the quality of your ADSL connection. Regardless of what it looks like, Interleaving vs non-interleaving won't change your WoW latency by a predictable amount.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

kiwipearls

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Ultimate Geek

#411179 30-Nov-2010 13:39

Talkiet:
kiwipearls: [snip]

He said it would only increase it by about 20ms - so maybe I am on a Interleaving profile which is less.

When I first logged into WoW since Interleaving has been turned on and my profile change. I now noticed, that I get about 1400ms on entering and it takes a good couple of mintues to go down, took 7 mins to go down to a steady 300ms.

This must be due to the interleaving and error packet thingy majiggy he mentioned to me on the phone?

suggesting latency could go up from 100-200ms... 20ms is possible, although unless some has been measuring before and after to essentially the first hop (a BRAS in the case of most Telecom connections for example), they may be seeing variability from sources other than the Interleaving...

You can often (not always) get a good site to check by trying a tracert to somewhere (anywhere - let's say ihug.co.nz) and looking for the first IP address that shows up outside your own home.

Once you have that IP address, try pinging it. It won't always be configured to respond, but if it does, you should get a very consistent ping time... If you then enabled (or disabled) interleaving, this latency should jump up (or down) by about 32ms.

The "latency" in WoW has got almost nothing to do with actual network latency. PLEASE never ever use this as a measure of the quality of your ADSL connection. Regardless of what it looks like, Interleaving vs non-interleaving won't change your WoW latency by a predictable amount.

Cheers - N

I was responding to the quote above (by Ragnor)

Oh I know...I was just replying with what I was told, so anybody else reading this knew other details.

And as for using WoW as a measure of qulaity, I never use it to measure quality, I know what my ingame latecny "avgs" at most times, so if it is quite a considerable jump from my avgs I use it as a basis/guideline to do further tests.

In the past if I had 20000ms in game, I knew there was a problem on my line. So if my gaming latency is between 280ms and 380ms - I know things are fine, depending on peak/off peak. It is a guage - as that is the one application that is up running constantly every day.

If I were not playing any games, I more than likely would not notice any issues with my broadband.

But also in saying that, since my migration last week to ADSL2+, YouTube has been choppy too. So I am crossing fingers the new Telecom modem rectifys the issue, and if not Telecom can then investigate further.

"In the real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems" - The Book of Counted Sorrows

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#411185 30-Nov-2010 13:47

kiwipearls: [snip]

And as for using WoW as a measure of qulaity, I never use it to measure quality, I know what my ingame latecny "avgs" at most times, so if it is quite a considerable jump from my avgs I use it as a basis/guideline to do further tests.

In the past if I had 20000ms in game, I knew there was a problem on my line. So if my gaming latency is between 280ms and 380ms - I know things are fine, depending on peak/off peak. It is a guage - as that is the one application that is up running constantly every day.

If I were not playing any games, I more than likely would not notice any issues with my broadband.

But also in saying that, since my migration last week to ADSL2+, YouTube has been choppy too. So I am crossing fingers the new Telecom modem rectifys the issue, and if not Telecom can then investigate further.

Fair enough... But my point is that the WoW 'latency' going to 20000 (or 7000, or over 9000, or 800) is very likely to have nothing to do with the ADSL line, but more to do with high layer issues... I know the equipment used and the packets simply won't live long enough to give any sort of latency increase on the DSL equipment.

On the other hand, if by 'my line' you include everything all the way to the WoW servers themselves, then sure... It just that the WoW latency, while incredibly important to players (I managed to quit WoW about 3 years ago myself and remember it well) is not a good predictor of local ISP network issues. There have of course been exceptions, but they were with traffic shaping on plans that no longer exist in Telecom - of course other ISPs may still send WoW traffic through similar devices.

With choppy youtube playback the first thing I would recommend is to make sure that you have your DNS servers set to by dynamically assigned and to make doubly sure that neither your PC nor your router are using anything like Google DNS etc. In NZ, not only are those 3rd party DNS servers much slower, but they'll also often ensure you don't use the caching appliances several ISPs now employ.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

kiwipearls

431 posts

Ultimate Geek

#411189 30-Nov-2010 13:54

Still very much a wow addict here - don't know if my husband and I will ever quit at this rate.? Unless something unbeleivably better comes along lol.

As for DNS - I have it assigned to telecom's DNS server.

New Primary
202.27.158.40
dnsc1.xtra.co.nz

New Secondary
202.27.156.72
dnsc2.xtra.co.nz

As for google DNS never heard of that, so that is not set up on my machine and I have no idea how to set that up on my router.

As for the tracert - first hop outside my local network to ihug was 63ms - last hop 43ms.

"In the real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems" - The Book of Counted Sorrows

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#411196 30-Nov-2010 14:07

kiwipearls: Still very much a wow addict here - don't know if my husband and I will ever quit at this rate. Unless something unbeleivably better comes along lol.

As for DNS - I have it assigned to telecom's DNS server.
New Primary
202.27.158.40
dnsc1.xtra.co.nz
New Secondary
202.27.156.72
dnsc2.xtra.co.nz
As for google DNS never heard of that, so that is not set up on my machine and I have no idea how to set that up on my router.

Heh - it took me a rediscovery of racing simulations to get out of WoW... I ended up selling the game and account to make sure I didn't get back into it accidentally!

Those DNS servers are correct... Youtube performance should be good... A couple of things you can try...

Go to youtube and try a popular or featured front page video - just to make sure you are trying a video that would have been cached... See how that goes.

You can also try this particular speedtest site ( http://speedtest.telecom.co.nz/ ) That's hosted by Telecom so we know you won't be testing any other networks...

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

kiwipearls

431 posts

Ultimate Geek

#411198 30-Nov-2010 14:10

Oh, never got into racing car games. I love the whole fantasy roleplaying type games. Love dressing up my characters.

I use both telecoms speedtest and speedtest.net.

But now, I just need to wait for that new modem and see if that makes a difference. Hope it gets here before Friday. *cross fingers*

"In the real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems" - The Book of Counted Sorrows

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#411223 30-Nov-2010 14:52

kiwipearls: Oh, never got into racing car games. I love the whole fantasy roleplaying type games. Love dressing up my characters.

Dressing up cars is much more fun :) (Ex-WoW player.....)

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Ragnor

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#411232 30-Nov-2010 15:04

Talkiet:

Turning Interleaving on if it's turned straight onto a full depth (16/16) will increase latency by a flat 32ms.

Hmm I'm sure it's made more of a difference than 32ms on real world ping, tracret and gaming latency in the past when I've gone from on to off.

However, I stand corrected if my memory is hazy.

rygrass

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Master Geek

#411331 30-Nov-2010 19:27

Ragnor:
Talkiet:

Turning Interleaving on if it's turned straight onto a full depth (16/16) will increase latency by a flat 32ms.

Hmm I'm sure it's made more of a difference than 32ms on real world ping, tracret and gaming latency in the past when I've gone from on to off.

However, I stand corrected if my memory is hazy.

To be honest it does change a bit more than just 32ms.. As comming from 95 ping in aussie to like 47 off the same sever. Even in USA i jumped down quite a bit

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#411366 30-Nov-2010 20:40

kiwipearls: My Linksys AG300 is ADSL2+ capable.

Seen a few of these older Linksys routers not play so nice with the new Telecom cabinet cards; so maybe time to try another router.

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kiwipearls

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Ultimate Geek

#411477 1-Dec-2010 08:13

Ok. Got my new modem this morning. Gosh that was quick.

But...still getting the same speed of 7.03mbps down and 0.33mbps up hrm?

Have not gone into the modem yet to look at settings - as I need to look up the modem IP - so I get into it. As those instructions are not included in the manual.

So everything I guess is factory default. Plus I need to finish the setup steps under telecom.co.nz/broadbandsetup - but have forgotton my password, so need to ring up for that.

But I have access to the internet? Sooo...I dunno.

Plus I guess I need to setup all the wireless security so no one steals my bandwidth. So when I get back from my school run, I am going to be busy reading up on how to do that.

"In the real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems" - The Book of Counted Sorrows

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#411506 1-Dec-2010 09:38

The modem comes with wpa2/psk enabled, so it is already secured.

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