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Topic # 7526 21-Apr-2006 13:33
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why doesn't telecom offer 8Mbps broadband? They are talk about providing adsl2 which has 24mbps download speed, but they can't even provide the max 8Mbps for adsl they have currently. Can't their network handle 8Mbps right now? Saying that is they have adsl2 will they only provide 12mbps instead of 24Mbps? providers in the UK are offering 8Mbps and some provders have 24Mbps.

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Reply # 33584 21-Apr-2006 14:50
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Well, they used to 'offer' full rate ADSL when the service was first rolled out.  They didn't limit the speed, they only had data caps.

I guess as the serive became more popular they had to limit each person to a maximum rate in order to maintain a minimum speed to each customer.

Also, even though the current plans go up to 3.5MB/s, this is only a maximum speed, and doesn't take into account contention ratios (there are something like 80 people per DSLAM switch? And each use is only guaranteed something like 24kb/s at peak time.  Someone else here may know the exact stats, these are just off the top of my head).

Last I heard there was talk about the contention ratios being raised (i.e. more people per DSLAM) meaning lower maximum speeds when the network is fully loaded.

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  Reply # 33605 21-Apr-2006 23:17

I understand and hear from a reliable source is its about the contention ratio. They have been buiiding out based on demand (read as "reserved capital expenditure until kicked by the media / government et al). Has anyone reported on the theft of $ from business for EXACTLY the same service / service level since 1999 for DSL as residential customers?

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  Reply # 33651 22-Apr-2006 14:35
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kelly2626: why doesn't telecom offer 8Mbps broadband? They are talk about providing adsl2 which has 24mbps download speed, but they can't even provide the max 8Mbps for adsl they have currently. Can't their network handle 8Mbps right now? Saying that is they have adsl2 will they only provide 12mbps instead of 24Mbps? providers in the UK are offering 8Mbps and some provders have 24Mbps.


It's not quite so easy... while the type of ADSL Telecom has deployed on paper connects at 8Mbit/s down and either 800kbit/s or 1Mbit/s up (I can't remember the correct figure now), this only happens under ideal, laboratory conditions.

Also, the 8Mbit/s translates into 7.6Mbit/s in reality, after protocol overheads.

The connection speed also degrades with distance from the DSLAM, and the state of the copper it traverses. My DSL line is currently connected at 5.6Mbit/s downstream for instance. So if someone tries to sell you 8Mbit/s ADSL, you should be sceptical.

ADSL2+ will depend on Telecom getting fibre and the roadside cabinets that'll house the DSLAMs as close as possible to customers. That's what they're spending most of their ADSL2+ budget on currently.




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  Reply # 33876 25-Apr-2006 18:51
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I say look at the size of our country, where we are and how much money we got.
Also, a slow realease secures money.

There will be more to it though.

Sorry to sound stuck up lolz.

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  Reply # 33877 25-Apr-2006 19:20
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juha - when you say cable on the roadside, do you mean like the old First Media network fibre?  Do you know/think they would use this existing infrastucture as a starting point to the ADSL2+ rollout?

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  Reply # 33880 25-Apr-2006 20:28
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timbosan: juha - when you say cable on the roadside, do you mean like the old First Media network fibre? Do you know/think they would use this existing infrastucture as a starting point to the ADSL2+ rollout?


No, Telecom has to get their fibre network closer to customers because the in order to deliver the touted ADSL2+ speeds, the local loop has to be shortened. What that means is fibre to roadside cabinets and less distance for the DSL signal to traverse over copper.




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  Reply # 33897 25-Apr-2006 23:23
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I read somewhere recently, think it might have been on Stuff, about a European country (Might have been one of the scandinavian ones) deciding if they should upgrade their broadband speeds to 100Mbits or if that will be too slow and should they go for 1Gbits instead.

Currently we are WELL BEHIND in broadband compared to most other OECD countries, and we LOVE the internet. I was on Trade Me the other day and it was showing 50,000 people on the site! Even if 10,000 of those people were inactive or whatever, thats 1% of the ENTIRE COUNTRY on Trade Me at that moment. I find that insanely hard to comprehend.

We should not be aiming to get out Broadband up to average OECD levels, WE SHOULD BE THE BEST. Look at Wellington and CityLink. Basically the whole of Downtown Wellington is crawling with Dark Fibre. If we did this in every major city in the country (And really, it isn't that inconciveable) we could have Gigabit internet to every urban household in the country.

Given our size and our population density etc I really don't think it would be that hard for us to achieve #1 in the OECD for broadband. Sure it would be a huge capital investment but at the moment we are really getting held back from out full potential. Kiwi's are about as Web Savvy as they get.




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  Reply # 33910 26-Apr-2006 08:15
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adamj: I read somewhere recently, think it might have been on Stuff, about a European country (Might have been one of the scandinavian ones) deciding if they should upgrade their broadband speeds to 100Mbits or if that will be too slow and should they go for 1Gbits instead.

Currently we are WELL BEHIND in broadband compared to most other OECD countries, and we LOVE the internet. I was on Trade Me the other day and it was showing 50,000 people on the site! Even if 10,000 of those people were inactive or whatever, thats 1% of the ENTIRE COUNTRY on Trade Me at that moment. I find that insanely hard to comprehend.

We should not be aiming to get out Broadband up to average OECD levels, WE SHOULD BE THE BEST. Look at Wellington and CityLink. Basically the whole of Downtown Wellington is crawling with Dark Fibre. If we did this in every major city in the country (And really, it isn't that inconciveable) we could have Gigabit internet to every urban household in the country.

Given our size and our population density etc I really don't think it would be that hard for us to achieve #1 in the OECD for broadband. Sure it would be a huge capital investment but at the moment we are really getting held back from out full potential. Kiwi's are about as Web Savvy as they get.


It probably wouldn't be a big capital investment either - single mode fibre costs about $4/metre which is cheaper than copper cable. But, the resource management act rubbish adds hundreds to that cost.

In Europe, the municipal authorities and utilities are now rolling out fibre to the home. Projects are underway in the whole of France, Vienna/Austria and Stockholm/Sweden for instance. NZ could do something similar and I know that Inspire Net in Palmerston North has started. Vector in Auckland has an extensive fibre network already that could be extended without too much ado.




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  Reply # 33918 26-Apr-2006 09:18
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This is why I don't vote for Labour





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  Reply # 33940 26-Apr-2006 11:27
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Would it be any different if we 'let the market decide' what happens?

Isn't that is what national is all about? Giving businesses more freedom from taxation and regulation?
(Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)




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  Reply # 33941 26-Apr-2006 11:32
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Remember National and Maurice Williamson... what exactly did they do to rein in Telecom's market power and to promote competition? Or to foster increased broadband uptake?

Go to www.national.org.nz and see what they're proposing now. It's not easy to find, and it's not much, but it'll give you an idea of how National prioritises ICT.




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  Reply # 34063 26-Apr-2006 22:33
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cokemaster: Would it be any different if we 'let the market decide' what happens?

Isn't that is what national is all about? Giving businesses more freedom from taxation and regulation?
(Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)


Who said anything about National?




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Reply # 34066 26-Apr-2006 22:41
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Nobody did, however an alternative to the Labour led government is a national led government. I don't really see any of the other parties being able to form a government currently.




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  Reply # 34067 26-Apr-2006 22:45
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cokemaster: Nobody did, however an alternative to the Labour led government is a national led government. I don't really see any of the other parties being able to form a government currently.


Who said anything about forming governments? It was simply a comment that I did not like how the Labour party handled the last look at LLU basically.




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  Reply # 34068 26-Apr-2006 22:52
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Ok, I was then discussing the 'alternatives' to a labour led government.




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