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6 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 8297 18-Jun-2006 17:29
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Recently moved to West Auckland suburb of Laingholm. Moved in, set up and got down to getting the broadband hooked up. Didnt want to deal with Telecom, as I am anti money hungry multimilion dollar companies that are anti-competition and overpriced for what they supply. So I contacted IHUG, faster cheaper etc.

It seems that no service is available due to Telecoms out-dated network service to this Auckland suburb. I am irate, moving from a location not far from Laingholm I was able to enjoy a decent speed broadband. I am running an online business and now have to travel to alternative s locations to work, I was previously able to do this from home.

We live and communicate in the 21st century - TC held and is still firmly holding us back. Check this following explanation as a demonstration of money hunger ... This is TC
There are several reasons why certain areas are unable to receive a copper based broadband service. Having checked your line, your particular instance of not receiving service has nothing to do with the exchange at all, other than your distance from it.

The technology used to deliver ADSL broadband is designed (not by Telecom) to have an upper distance limit of 5.5km from the closest exchange. You are over 6.5 km from the Titirangi exchange and this is over the limit for a stable Broadband signal.

At this stage, there are no set plans to upgrade the network that services your property, and obviously neighbouring properties, as there are many factors Telecom needs to take into consideration before an area is upgraded.

Popularity is one factor taken into account and in some cases smaller numbers interested in this service can mean we focus on an area that has higher demand. High demand in an area does not mean we will upgrade straight away as the cost for the actual upgrade is also a major consideration. In some areas throughout NZ this can be around $8000 per site ranging right up to over 1\4 of a million dollars for the upgrade.

Taking this factor, plus the equation of "if we do upgrade, then how many customers would realistically still be able to connect to the service" can limit the areas we choose. We have cases where 'if' the upgrade was completed then out of the 100 customers connected via that piece of the network the actual number that would be able to use the service can be as low as 8.


I have checked this information - meaning the distance reasoning - to be completely false. Huia, a suburb twice to three times as far from the exchange is able to recieve a broadband connection. So, as if we didnt know already, TC seems it comes down to MONEY, rather than progress. Communication in New Zealand is a joke and in this part of West Auckland - non-existent.

Do you have any qualms - Are you restricted in some way by this company?? Let this forum be the place to speak.



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BDFL - Memuneh
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Reply # 38897 18-Jun-2006 17:49
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Welcome to Geekzone!

TheyShouldFall: Recently moved to West Auckland suburb of Laingholm. Moved in, set up and got down to getting the BROADBAND hooked up. Didnt want to deal with Telecom, as I am anti MONEY HUNGRY MULTIMILLION dollar companies that are ANTI-COMPETITION and OVER PRICED for what they supply. So I contacted IHUG, faster cheaper etc.

It seems that no service is available due to Telecoms out-dated network service to this Auckland suburb. I am IRATE, moving from a location not far from Laingholm I was able to enjoy a decent speed BROADBAND. I am running an online business and now have to travel to alternative s locations to work, I was previously able to do this from home.


You see, the companies complain about not being able to provide the service to consumers. But do they take the time and money to invest in infrastructure and make it work for you? No... IHUG, Slingshot, etc all complain about Telecom, but they don't do anything, except providing services on top of an infrastructure that we know is not the most modern in the world.

Of course there are notable exceptions. Woosh for example provide wireless (acceptable speeds) Internet, and of course TelstraClear provides a most excellent cable modem service - I am running on a 10Mbps down/2Mbps up connection at home, and ADSL can't offer this without upgrades yet to come.

There are options, as you can see, but government and councils stop progress in some cases. AFAIK TelstraClear wanted to deploy cable in Auckland, but the council wouldn't approve the project. More on Juha's Blog.

TheyShouldFall: There are several reasons why certain areas are unable to receive a copper based broadband service. Having checked your line, your particular instance of not receiving service has nothing to do with the exchange at all, other than your distance from it.

The technology used to deliver ADSL broadband is designed (not by Telecom) to have an upper distance limit of 5.5km from the closest exchange. You are over 6.5 km from the Titirangi exchange and this is over the limit for a stable Broadband signal...

I have checked this information - meaning the distance reasoning - to be completely false. Huia, a suburb twice to three times as far from the exchange is able to recieve a BROADBAND connection. So, as if we didnt know already, TELECOM seems it comes down to MONEY, rather than progress. COMMUNICATION in New Zealand is a JOKE and in this part of West AUCKLAND - NONEXISTENT.


The distance is a factor and are we absolutely sure there's no other exchange or a cabinet (these are small boxes sometimes on the roadside) currently servicing Huia?

Another thing to consider is the inherently capitalist state we live. Companies are entities created to provide returns to investors. They do so by providing goods and services within their capabilities. I don't believe a company is a "money hungry multimillion dollar... anti-competition... and over priced.".

This description fits the Vodafone Group, which is many times bigger than Telecom New Zealand, and also fits Telstra, which is listed in the top corporations worldwide. The only company that won't fit this description is probably out of business.









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  Reply # 38898 18-Jun-2006 18:04
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TheyShouldFall:

Huia, a suburb twice to three times as far from the exchange is able to recieve a BROADBAND connection.



This doesn't necessarily mean these two suburbs are using the same exchange.

The range given, in what appears to be an email reply, would be the level of hardware needed to provide Broadband service.. meaning it could be as simple as a roadside cabinet through to requiring larger extensive parts of the exchange to be upgraded.

It is very much business sense to spend money where it will pay for itself let alone break even....

I'm interested at this stage and eagerly awaiting details of the reports being generated for the comcom in how, at least in small part,  LLU will pan out for customers who are on the outskirts of town, especially when ISPs will now have to pay for the hardware in that area as well rather than wholesale through TC.

There are many promises up in the air that rural communites and those on the outskirts of cities won't be neglected by various ISPs... I would LOVE to see this happen the way it seems to be promised, but can't help being at least a little skeptical.

 
 
 
 


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Reply # 38899 18-Jun-2006 18:13
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TheyShouldFall: <snip>
Do you have any qualms - Are you restricted in some way by this company?? Let this forum be the place to speak.


No qualms, no restrictions, nothing to say.... except:

For someone with an online business I am surprised you didnt do your homework and find out whether broadband was available.




Gravity is a myth.....The Earth Sucks!



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Wannabe Geek


Reply # 38902 18-Jun-2006 19:59
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In reply to the last post - Laingholm was a choice based on family - not MONEY. Although, if you were in my shoes you would appreciate the concern not only in terms of my own business growth but of all people in very much the same circumstances.

Huia, is serviced by the Titirangi exchange. There is no other exchange closer to Laingholm - so this would mean Huia does not have its own exchange. As Huia is a smaller and much more isloated Auckland suburd TELECOM would most likely see it not worth SPENDING money on the infrastructure there...

As stated in my previous entry - distance is surely not a factor when a place like Huia can still recieve, albeit a weakened BROADBAND connection. My indications lead me to CABINET reasoning.

In the case of CABINET upgrades - can anyone of knowledge in TELECOMMUNICATIONS please explain what this would involve to enable BROADBAND access to properties such as my own??? Would this be an expensive venture on TELECOM'S part??

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  Reply # 38907 18-Jun-2006 20:41
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TheyShouldFall:
In the case of CABINET upgrades - can anyone of knowledge in TELECOMMUNICATIONS please explain what this would involve to enable BROADBAND access to properties such as my own??? Would this be an expensive venture on TELECOM'S part??


I do believe that question has already been answered, In your own post even...

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  Reply # 38911 18-Jun-2006 21:31
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*TheyShouldFall* What’s with all the CAPS, they make you seem really angry??

I believe your argument is flawed in a number of places; here are just of the few things:

By "MONEY HUNGRY MULTIMILLION" - do you mean successful?? Telecoms are a business after all, they must look at a number of things, and in your case they must have decided that there is no currently business case to proved PSTN ADSL to your address.

ANTI-COMPETITION - mmm as *freitasm* says, Woosh, Vodafone, TeltraClear with Telecom being smaller than all of those companies as a whole with the exception of Woosh Wireless.

"COMMUNICATION in
New Zealand is a JOKE and in this part of West AUCKLAND - NONEXISTENT" - I disagree, most New Zealanders to have the ability to access broadband in one way or another, i.e., via Woosh, Vodafone, or Telecom's 3G CDMA 1XEVDO network.


Anyways back to trying to help, why don’t you take advantage of either Vodafone’s or Telecom's 3G Data Card 1GB promo's, only $49 +GST / month??

Cheers














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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 38920 18-Jun-2006 22:23
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I'm not sure the last writer believes is acceptable telecommunications, but I think that the majority of us here in NZ realise the we are lagging behind most other countries in the world. Our access speeds have been and still are laughed at by visitors to our fair and beautiful shores.

Govt has played a major role no doubt - yet as my concern develops my sights always fall on TELECOM. I may be one-eyed and have a chip on my shoulder, but I want choice ... as someone said previously the we are a capitalist based democracy - well a key part of that is being able to have choice. Back to my original problem - I feel I have very limited selection. Woosh is not available here and I am not willing to pay through the backside for something I can live without but depend upon in terms of my blossoming business venture. YES, we are still and will be for some time - OVERCHARGED.

Back to the persons CABINET response - I aint some TELECOM or PHONE company whizz, so my question relates to the actual work involved in upgrading these things...the cost of doing so....and what the ______ is a CABINET? Anyone who could answer these would be greatly appreciated - How do these act in the delivery of BROADBAND?

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Reply # 38924 18-Jun-2006 22:50
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"but I think that the majority of us here in NZ realise the we are lagging behind most other countries in the world. Our access speeds have been and still are laughed at by visitors to our fair and beautiful shores"
 - Need I say it but ADSL2+ on its way. People seem to forget the relative size of
New Zealand compared to the rest of the world, for something we simply do not that the population base to subsidise everything.

Capitalist based democracy - I fail to see how this makes your point. In a Capitalist society most business’s aim to maximise their profits. Basic Economics. My personal view is much along the lines of true competition will come in the form of investment in alterative networks, not LLU, but this is another issue that has been widely debated here, and I really cant be bothered going into it all again.

Overcharged, OMG give it a rest would you. It's not that bad!! $39.95 for a phone line, with free local calling isn’t too bad broadband from Telecom starts from $29.95 and no doubt with convergence this will decrease in price. 








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  Reply # 38929 18-Jun-2006 23:44
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As mentioned a little earlier:

freitasm:

a cabinet (these are small boxes sometimes on the roadside)



I used to think they were power transformers, they stand about 1.6m high(ish), and about 1.4m(ish again) and look like a double closet, only brown/green, metalic and ugly. If you walked past one you'd probably stare at it sideways from the noise of the exhaust fans.

I don't know costs exactly as they vary, less so with new ones and whether they are fully kitted out or just enough to serve the area... but would be easily over $10k.... Anyone know with more detail?

Not cheap anyway and thats just the hardware.. especially in a small community where it would take a lot of customers to make it break even in the short term.

In terms of Huia, it could have been for a number of reasons why they had a new cabinet installed, old one may have died.. or some rich bigwig might enjoy living on the outskirts of town and approached Telecom through his business, its been known to happen.

A friend of mine had his neighbour over who got to talking how his company would gladly pay half of the costs to get it there.... I had a feeling in the end Telecom went the whole hog from what he was saying... but yea... just outlining there could be heaps of reasons why Huia has a cabinet that supports ADSL and Laingholm doesn't.. at least yet.

I do think however that Telcom keeps record of how many people check if BB is availible yet can't have it and will ofttimes touch base a few months down the track to see if they are still interested or even contact before then if the hardware has been installed in the mean time as this happend to my sister Laughing

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Reply # 38932 18-Jun-2006 23:51
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This is an example of a roadside cabinet: http://whirlpool.net.au/article.cfm/1186

One of the reasons why the deployment can be delayed for example is if the cabinet is full and requires an expansion to accomodate DSLAMs - which without them ADSL won't work.





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  Reply # 38970 19-Jun-2006 12:34
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TheyShouldFall, you seem very angry... but your diatribe is misplaced imho...  these points have been covered by others here already (your lack of homework, your lack of understanding of the technology, you're belief that Telecom owes you something)

as you say, this is the 21st century, the world has changed. Communications are not a right. They are a business (sad, but true) and a product. That’s the way it is.

BTW if you post anything around mobile technology, and used caps like you have in this post, I for one will ignore you... its just bad manners

Felix 5ive






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Wannabe Geek


Reply # 39003 19-Jun-2006 15:36
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Thanks for the replies that are actually relevant to this issue. It must be interesting to find someone who uses capitals to enhance feeling in written language worth mentioning.

I still believe we are overcharged - prices are generally driven down by competition and when consumers can have access to a range of different services. I'm not sure if the previous person mentioning cost has much touch with those in NZ who still struggle to make ends meet , let alone have extra money to blast out on things like broadband.

Anyway - Im banging my head on a wall with this.

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  Reply # 39005 19-Jun-2006 15:53
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TheyShouldFall: ....It must be interesting to find someone who uses capitals to enhance feeling in written language worth mentioning.....


I don't know how other users feel about this but I would rather see bold than CAPS

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Reply # 39007 19-Jun-2006 16:02
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I hope to make the last OT post in this thread. On the Internet ALL CAPS is SHOUTING! If you want to draw attention to something, please use bold, or if not available then *something like this* is the equivalent.





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  Reply # 39008 19-Jun-2006 16:05
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RFC 1855, states the use of CAPS is considered shouting... I'd prefer to see bold too...

edit > will leave this alone now... quite right, strayed off topic, sorry

Back on topic, TheyShouldFall if you get bad TV reception, do you complain to TVNZ, TV3 or Prime? If you can't recieve a radiostation do you complain the TRN, Radioworks, B-Net etc? Would you expect these companies to put in extra infrastrucre at a cost that doesn't make sence financially?




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