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3892 posts

Uber Geek


  #521959 16-Sep-2011 14:09
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graemeh:
pwner: There is also the fact that we are all so used to broadband we forget how slow dial up was! even the size and scripting now on the google homepage require way more bandwidth than they did 3 years ago yet alone 10 years ago when dial up was the norm.


It's not just that though, when my connection is throttled it's a battle to just collect email using POP.  The connection speed is not the issue.


Is the CPU load to high on the router to deal with the traffic management properly?






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176 posts

Master Geek


  #522202 16-Sep-2011 23:58
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I wonder if it is something like to do with the fact the modem probably still syncs at whatever it always did*, so configures buffers accordingly, transmits to the DSLAM accordingly, but then whatever it is doing the shaping goes "hey, whoa there boy, not so fast!" and drops a tonne of packets.

* I have no idea if this happens - I'm a cable customer

TCP responds well enough to dropped packets - here and there (symptomatic of a truly congested link) - but if you start randomly dropping packets left right and centre, especially large numbers of them, it backs way the hell off.

All the advice I've read online about getting better usability out of slow links suggest that you should throttle your uplink to a percentage of the actual uplink. Don't rely on the ISP, because he has likely configured large buffers in the access hardware to help with throughput (ie, fast downloads).

Does your router have QoS controls? Give them a go during a time when you are throttled. (See if I'm making all this up - I'm interested).

 
 
 
 


646 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #522749 18-Sep-2011 20:54
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akia: Details are here:

http://www.telecom.co.nz/broadband/plansettings

If you exceed your data allowance, you can keep using the internet at no extra cost but your speed will be significantly reduced (to a maximum of 64 kilobits per second).





Yea.... about that..



Could you please pass a message along to upper management that 64k isnt enough anymore.

Its 2011. Soon to be 2012. Time for a change.

Aus has up to 1Mbps for capped last I saw.
Would like to see a decent effort to catch up and close the gap between the countries.




NZ / AU Battlefield 4 Gaming Community
http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

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  #522754 18-Sep-2011 21:01
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NZCrusader:
akia: Details are here:

http://www.telecom.co.nz/broadband/plansettings

If you exceed your data allowance, you can keep using the internet at no extra cost but your speed will be significantly reduced (to a maximum of 64 kilobits per second).





Yea.... about that..



Could you please pass a message along to upper management that 64k isnt enough anymore.

Its 2011. Soon to be 2012. Time for a change.

Aus has up to 1Mbps for capped last I saw.

Would like to see a decent effort to catch up and close the gap between the countries.


You can't have it both ways - a 1Mb throttled speed would allow you to go through more traffic in a day than your existing cap. If you don't want a plan that caps your speed move to one that allows additional data usage.


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  #522778 18-Sep-2011 22:08
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As far as I see it, if you don't want capped speeds get a plan that lets you pay per gb after. (Like most Telecom Plans now)

Why would any ISP give you an 128k connection AFTER you have used all the bandwidth you have paid for.
I remember back in the day I use to max the 128k unlimited line and pull excess of 100 + gb a month so If I brought the 2gb plan for $78 (includes phone so really around $30). Kill that data within an hour and continue to download the rest of the month, It doesn't really make any sense as they won't be making any money from me.

They are like any other business out to make a profit so if you don't want to be capped and get crap speeds upgrade to a plan that doesn't cap you once you hit your limit.




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Ultimate Geek

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  #522796 18-Sep-2011 23:17
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A/ I dont want Overage! 128k, 1Mb or anything like that.
B/ I pay for a plan that slows from full speed to 64Kb, not anything from 0 to 90Kb. I'd be happy if it was at Dialup, hell at this stage a 9200baud modem would be an improvement.
C/ I chose the Capped plan for a reason so I know exactly how much I'm paying for, and my kids don't run me out of money before data.

Now I'm told from a Telecom CSR that the further you go over your cap, the slower and more unreliable the capped speed gets!?!?! Is this correct?









CraZeD,
Your friendly Southern Geeky Fellow :P


176 posts

Master Geek


  #522801 18-Sep-2011 23:29
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crazed: Now I'm told from a Telecom CSR that the further you go over your cap, the slower and more unreliable the capped speed gets!?!?! Is this correct?


Correct or not, it's totally uncool. All the literature I've read says you'll be limited to dial-up speeds, not some increasingly-unreliable, ever-decreasing speed.

What kind of speed do you get (when it is not limited)? Perhaps it is somewhere in excess of 2mbit/sec? Would you be happy with a slower speed throughout the month (reliable, of course!), and a much higher data cap? Personally, I get 40GB and 15mbit/sec, but I'd be happy with 280GB and 2mbit/sec. (For me, 2mbit/sec feels like a magic number. Perhaps it is because that is the speed of an E1?).

 
 
 
 


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  #522835 19-Sep-2011 07:52
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The 64kbps caps are unreliable and choking a DSL connection like this, doesn't work as well as a true dialup plan which operates at 56kbps.

With most of the ISP's not offering double data, why don't they also double capped speed. 128kbps would make the internet usable compared how it performs at 64kbps. It's like they don't care that 64kbps doesn't work properly as it's a tool to encourage there users to buy more data or more costly plans.

At 64kbps a user should be able to get 691.2 MB per day, but that's a bit Year Right.
At 64kbps users should be able to get 4838 MB per week or around 19GB per month of capped speed data.
That isn't happening.

I think The capped system is broken, because your line is syncing at ie 10mbps it's flooding the ISP with requests of which the ISP is only responding at 64kbps. It's like your giving your own connection a DDOS attack resulting in network congestion. (Typical effects include queueing delay, packet loss or the blocking of new connections. )

64kbps capped speeds worked better on adsl1 because of the lower line sync speed, but with adsl2+ it really can't cope and so the 64kbps limit should be doubled to 128kbps to keep the internet functioning.

At 128kbps it would take all day to get the same amount of data as a 10mbps connect would get in 30mins,
The ISP would be making there money on the speed of the data and not on the amount of the data,
user can get the same data for free but it takes all day or a couple of days.

Basicly, I'm saying, it's not 2011 not 1990, capped speeds should increase to 128kbps or at least perform as advertised, they have been doing it for more than 20 years and still not got it right.


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Ultimate Geek

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  #522845 19-Sep-2011 08:15
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crazed: Now I'm told from a Telecom CSR that the further you go over your cap, the slower and more unreliable the capped speed gets!?!?! Is this correct?


That is not correct. It is capped at 64kps and stays there until customers reache their billing anniversary or changes their plan.

176 posts

Master Geek


  #522852 19-Sep-2011 08:23
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hellonearthisman: I think The capped system is broken, because your line is syncing at ie 10mbps it's flooding the ISP with requests of which the ISP is only responding at 64kbps. It's like your giving your own connection a DDOS attack resulting in network congestion. (Typical effects include queueing delay, packet loss or the blocking of new connections. )



I read this as a +1 of #522202. :-)

646 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #522869 19-Sep-2011 09:12
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I see some oppose my view.


Still if Aus can do it. I dont see why we cant.
Even a small effort to 128 - 256k would be good.


Im NOT saying that there should be "high speed" when going over cap. But something usable would be good.
64k caps are the reason im on AYCE.



As internet apps demand more data, eventually dialup and capped 64k will no longer be enough.
Im near convinced that we are just about there anyway.




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http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

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Ultimate Geek

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2degrees

  #522872 19-Sep-2011 09:17
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I would say that given 64k restriction does not behave like a real 64k link then if they changed the restriction to 128k then it could possibly act like a real 64k link.

What i would be more interested in would be that they only cap international traffic as that is the bandwidth that costs ISPs money. Domestic traffic would still allow you to access NZ based banks, governemtn sites and other must haves. Even a lot of google and MS update traffic is local anyway these days too.





Any posts are personal comments and not that of my employer


176 posts

Master Geek


  #522902 19-Sep-2011 10:15
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pwner: I would say that given 64k restriction does not behave like a real 64k link then if they changed the restriction to 128k then it could possibly act like a real 64k link.

What i would be more interested in would be that they only cap international traffic as that is the bandwidth that costs ISPs money. Domestic traffic would still allow you to access NZ based banks, governemtn sites and other must haves. Even a lot of google and MS update traffic is local anyway these days too.



That would require Telstra and Telecom peer again. Wishful thinking...

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  #522912 19-Sep-2011 10:32
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crazed: [snip]

Now I'm told from a Telecom CSR that the further you go over your cap, the slower and more unreliable the capped speed gets!?!?! Is this correct?


No, it's completely false.

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  #522951 19-Sep-2011 11:46
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jnawk:
hellonearthisman: I think The capped system is broken, because your line is syncing at ie 10mbps it's flooding the ISP with requests of which the ISP is only responding at 64kbps. It's like your giving your own connection a DDOS attack resulting in network congestion. (Typical effects include queueing delay, packet loss or the blocking of new connections. )



I read this as a +1 of #522202. :-)

Oh yeah, totally a +1

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