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  Reply # 572085 22-Jan-2012 19:37
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peroski:


I'm not sure what the law / CGA has to do with this.



"If the goods you buy turn out to be faulty you are covered by the Consumer Guarantees Act"
http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz


Yip.

Mind telling us exactly how Telecom's actions have breached the CGA?

Has she asked for a full refund and been refused? If not, and she's asked for the product to replaced under warranty then there are absolutely no issues with the product being returned to the supplier or service agent.




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  Reply # 572090 22-Jan-2012 19:44
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My summation...
Telecom typically exercise their rights under the CGA - customers either do not like, or do not understand the rights of the retailer.
Apple choose to keep a customer... potentially for life, by replacing the item, no questions asked.

The cost in $'s and in time arguing with their customers simply doesn't make financial sense in my books. BUT, as people have pointed out, there are many, many dodgy people out there who lie, cheat and steal... making Telecom's approach somewhat necessary.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony of mentioning major corporations in the same post re: morality and ethics...

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  Reply # 572092 22-Jan-2012 19:48
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Dunnersfella: My summation...
Telecom typically exercise their rights under the CGA - customers either do not like, or do not understand the rights of the retailer.
Apple choose to keep a customer... potentially for life, by replacing the item, no questions asked.

The cost in $'s and in time arguing with their customers simply doesn't make financial sense in my books. BUT, as people have pointed out, there are many, many dodgy people out there who lie, cheat and steal... making Telecom's approach somewhat necessary.


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  Reply # 572118 22-Jan-2012 20:49
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In general most retail stores seem to check out the phone that its not obvious water or impact damage, and if so exchange the phone for a new one within the OBF period (14 to 30 days i believe), and sort out the broken one themselves.

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  Reply # 572176 22-Jan-2012 22:34
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sbiddle:
rscole86: The main problem here is

"has no damage."

Having worked for a number of years in retail, we saw a few products come back like this. Unfortunately for the masses, a few have actually damaged their product through neglect, which means retailers have a strict inspection process, before replacing items such as yours.


I've also heard?a story from a major retailer where a group of customers appear to have swindled a signifiant amount of money off them when some products were given immediate instore replacements. It seems many of these goods actually originated from this retailer and where actual warranty claims that were not disposed of properly.

Turns out they were visiting stores buying identical model replacement products to faulty items they had in their possession. The catch was things such as phone batteries were being swapped and some space appliances had been entirely rebuilt to ensure that serial numbers matched. This gave them an as new device/appliance, and a faulty replacement to return. Once this was returned for an on the spot replacement they ended up with one brand new and a working product which could both be sold.

For every honest customer, there are plenty out there trying to rip retailers off..



Although what you are describing is essentially fraud or theft, so the retailers could get the police involved if that occurs. It isn't much different from someone going into the store and stealing. But the answer is not to treat all your customers like thieves, if that is the reason why they need to first send it off to be checked.

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  Reply # 572323 23-Jan-2012 12:15
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freitasm:
mattwnz: It seems to mainly apply to mobile phones for some reason.


Exactly. For some esoteric reason other consumer goods seem to fall under the "let's put it right" (with some retailers obviously), while mobile phones are in a special category as in "these are so special and shiny we deserve some special rules"... These companies seem to believe everyone buys a handset to replace parts and claim DOA, or swap old batteries or whatever they fear, leaving them with the bad apple ;)




I was talking to the local Orb shop about 18 months ago (may have been longer), and they had just changed their policy on how they handle phones that are being returned. Basically it revolved around the law regarding second hand items had changed (or something to that effect) and that if a phone came back and they swapped it a DOA, then all good - but to then repair and sell the original phone they would then need to have a second hand dealers license! Hence why they tightened up on the just swapping a new or relatively new dead phone for a brand new one off the shelf phone. (Which they certainly use to do)

Therefore, the first line was to sent it for repair rather that swap it after that.

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  Reply # 572632 24-Jan-2012 10:09
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My 10 cents.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nowhere in this thread has it been said what the Telecom store actually did in this situation.
It was stated she was going to go back to the store, and next thing we heard she had gone straight to Apple.

Did she go to the store at all? If so, what actually was their response? If not, why have all these accusations been made against Telecom when they didn't actually get any chance to rectify the issue?

Happy to be corrected, of course.




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  Reply # 572653 24-Jan-2012 10:51
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but nowhere in this thread has it been said what the Telecom store actually did in this situation.
It was stated she was going to go back to the store, and next thing we heard she had gone straight to Apple.

Did she go to the store at all? If so, what actually was their response? If not, why have all these accusations been made against Telecom when they didn't actually get any chance to rectify the issue?

Happy to be corrected, of course.


in the first post

"She took it back to the store and they said they will need to send it away for a couple weeks to get it fixed... "  

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  Reply # 572657 24-Jan-2012 10:56
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Okey doke - all good then. My apologies.




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  Reply # 572676 24-Jan-2012 11:53
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@Telecom

The question is whether or not you would sell and stand by a refurbished iPhone. In this case it appears you would not so why should the customer put up with one?

It may be that you have plans and procedures in place but keeping your customers happy is much more important.

I feel sorry for you and other retailers' 'difficult market conditions' but I think you'll find excellent service and a willingness to put right anything within reason is why I shop where I do. I think this is the case for many others as well.

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  Reply # 572731 24-Jan-2012 13:24
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1080p: @Telecom

The question is whether or not you would sell and stand by a refurbished iPhone. In this case it appears you would not so why should the customer put up with one?

It may be that you have plans and procedures in place but keeping your customers happy is much more important.

I feel sorry for you and other retailers' 'difficult market conditions' but I think you'll find excellent service and a willingness to put right anything within reason is why I shop where I do. I think this is the case for many others as well.


I'm not sure what you're meaning.

Are you suggesting that we would repair the phone instead of replacing? Is that your question?

If so then I think you've misunderstood me. The phone only goes to the repairers to confirm it is indeed an out of box failure. Once that is confirmed then a call is made to the customer and they can go to the store to collect the replacement phone. If however it is not an out of box failure then other steps are taken. Some examples I can think off the top of my head are if there is water damage or it has clearly been dropped causing significant damage or if they cannot find any fault at all.

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  Reply # 572736 24-Jan-2012 13:31
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akia:
1080p: @Telecom

The question is whether or not you would sell and stand by a refurbished iPhone. In this case it appears you would not so why should the customer put up with one?

It may be that you have plans and procedures in place but keeping your customers happy is much more important.

I feel sorry for you and other retailers' 'difficult market conditions' but I think you'll find excellent service and a willingness to put right anything within reason is why I shop where I do. I think this is the case for many others as well.


I'm not sure what you're meaning.

Are you suggesting that we would repair the phone instead of replacing? Is that your question?

If so then I think you've misunderstood me. The phone only goes to the repairers to confirm it is indeed an out of box failure. Once that is confirmed then a call is made to the customer and they can go to the store to collect the replacement phone. If however it is not an out of box failure then other steps are taken. Some examples I can think off the top of my head are if there is water damage or it has clearly been dropped causing significant damage or if they cannot find any fault at all.


Thanks for replying in this forum. Just wondering though why Apple appears to have just done a straight replacement when they were contacted directly? Sounds like it would be a better idea for staff to tell them to contact apple directly as they will get a better and less costly result, in terms of time, transport and being without the phone. In your situation, the customer would need to make special 2 trips to the store, for something that was defective when sold. Or do you also give them credit for that.

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  Reply # 572742 24-Jan-2012 13:41
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akia:
1080p: @Telecom

The question is whether or not you would sell and stand by a refurbished iPhone. In this case it appears you would not so why should the customer put up with one?

It may be that you have plans and procedures in place but keeping your customers happy is much more important.

I feel sorry for you and other retailers' 'difficult market conditions' but I think you'll find excellent service and a willingness to put right anything within reason is why I shop where I do. I think this is the case for many others as well.


I'm not sure what you're meaning.

Are you suggesting that we would repair the phone instead of replacing? Is that your question?

If so then I think you've misunderstood me. The phone only goes to the repairers to confirm it is indeed an out of box failure. Once that is confirmed then a call is made to the customer and they can go to the store to collect the replacement phone. If however it is not an out of box failure then other steps are taken. Some examples I can think off the top of my head are if there is water damage or it has clearly been dropped causing significant damage or if they cannot find any fault at all.


And this can be a real issue. I had this with one of my users with a Nokia 6720 - it kept having weird errors and kept coming back from the repairers "No Fault Found". If would fault again and be sent away again. FINALLY on the 5th time away the repairer found multiple faults with it and the phone was mostly replaced (ie, they replaced the screen and several other parts). This is bloody annoying as a business customer to keep going through this and just bloody stupid. The hours wasted by me having to take the phone in each time and do the paper work, only to have it come back with "No Fault Found"...

After we had a few more of these phone most of them (but not all) developed similar issues and had to be sent away for repair.

Once repaired, no more issues with them.

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  Reply # 572784 24-Jan-2012 15:00
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keewee01:
akia:
1080p: @Telecom

The question is whether or not you would sell and stand by a refurbished iPhone. In this case it appears you would not so why should the customer put up with one?

It may be that you have plans and procedures in place but keeping your customers happy is much more important.

I feel sorry for you and other retailers' 'difficult market conditions' but I think you'll find excellent service and a willingness to put right anything within reason is why I shop where I do. I think this is the case for many others as well.


I'm not sure what you're meaning.

Are you suggesting that we would repair the phone instead of replacing? Is that your question?

If so then I think you've misunderstood me. The phone only goes to the repairers to confirm it is indeed an out of box failure. Once that is confirmed then a call is made to the customer and they can go to the store to collect the replacement phone. If however it is not an out of box failure then other steps are taken. Some examples I can think off the top of my head are if there is water damage or it has clearly been dropped causing significant damage or if they cannot find any fault at all.


And this can be a real issue. I had this with one of my users with a Nokia 6720 - it kept having weird errors and kept coming back from the repairers "No Fault Found". If would fault again and be sent away again. FINALLY on the 5th time away the repairer found multiple faults with it and the phone was mostly replaced (ie, they replaced the screen and several other parts). This is bloody annoying as a business customer to keep going through this and just bloody stupid. The hours wasted by me having to take the phone in each time and do the paper work, only to have it come back with "No Fault Found"...

After we had a few more of these phone most of them (but not all) developed similar issues and had to be sent away for repair.

Once repaired, no more issues with them.


Apple sells their refurbished stuff at a lesser price on the apple website anyway, so I doubt they would swap a brand new phone that is DOA with a refurbished. Not even sure if that is allowed, because if you buy new, then you should be getting new.

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  Reply # 572794 24-Jan-2012 15:10
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And this can be a real issue. I had this with one of my users with a Nokia 6720 - it kept having weird errors and kept coming back from the repairers "No Fault Found". If would fault again and be sent away again. FINALLY on the 5th time away the repairer found multiple faults with it and the phone was mostly replaced (ie, they replaced the screen and several other parts). This is bloody annoying as a business customer to keep going through this and just bloody stupid. The hours wasted by me having to take the phone in each time and do the paper work, only to have it come back with "No Fault Found"...

After we had a few more of these phone most of them (but not all) developed similar issues and had to be sent away for repair.

Once repaired, no more issues with them.


Intermittent faults are another issue by themselves. It is hard sometimes to reproduce the fault but it can be very annoying facing it day in and out. I have found that videoing the fault happening and sending it through to the repairers as additional information (which you can do via their website and your reference number) is the best thing to do. But then this topic is somewhat digressing from the original Out of box failure scenario the thread was referring to.

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