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268 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 79354 23-Jul-2007 23:15
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Well, point taken.

Although we have built in English dictionary in web browsers, it doesn't correct our grammar.

People like me who English is second language after higher education and their mother tongue has no similarity with Latin grammar, it is kind of hard to use proper grammar while express their thought.

Couldn't write English correctly doesn't automatically proven the person is unintelligent.

I think it global and historic trend that young breaking grammar and spelling, it just accelerated by using txt and internet.

It is kind of impossible to understand 10 year old Korean kid's posting without much of imagination.

So, please be open to others grammar, they don't do it deliberately but mere mistakes.


BTW, how many grammar mistakes I had in this?


588 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 79371 24-Jul-2007 08:01
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Actually Shin, I think you make a lot more sense than a number of people for whom English is their first language Wink

Btw, Latin grammar is quite different to English grammar.  There are some commonalities in concepts and source, but they still differ overall.




Post-geek, opinionated mediaphile, and natural born cynic. Jack of all genres, master of none.

122 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 79378 24-Jul-2007 08:34
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Shin: People like me who English is second language

Yeah, your grammar may be bad but I assure you - your English is far better than my Korean. Personally, I'm never annoyed (although occasionally amused) by foreign English speakers. I don't find txt-speak, when texting, too annoying either. Even people whose* mother tongue is English but (clearly) just don't type much I can forgive.

It's the 'professional' marketers, or folks who ask for help in forums but can't be bothered to make the request readable that annoy me. Not because they don't know the correct grammar, or make typing mistakes - but because they're too lazy to take the effort and make their post presentable.

* Edited so lugh can sleep at night.

122 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 79389 24-Jul-2007 09:41
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BTW, how many grammar mistakes I had in this?

Well, Word 2003 found 1 (it didn’t like “automatically proven the”) and I’ve spotted 16. I’ve listed them below because a) It helps a lot when people correct things I’ve written in a foreign language and b) the alternative is doing some real work.

· Bad paragraph formation throughout (fragmented).

· Bad word order. “Although we have built in English dictionary in web browsers” should read “Although we have an English dictionary built into web browsers” (this one always kills me in other languages, so I can relate).

· “People like…” should be “For people like”.

· “People like me who English is second language” should read “People like me for who(m) English is a second language” (counts as 2!)

· “after higher education”. Meaning not clear (I won’t count this one).

· “while express” should be “while expressing”.

· “their thought” should be “their thoughts”, or “thought” i.e. while expressing thought (their is implied).

· “Couldn't write English correctly doesn't automatically proven the person is unintelligent.” I’ll count this line as one - the words, context & tense are jumbled. Should read “Incorrectly written English doesn’t automatically prove the person is unintelligent”, or more succinctly, “Poor written English does not prove low intelligence”.

· “I think it global”, should read “I think it is a global”, or ”I think it’s a global”, or ”It’s a global”.

· “young breaking grammar and spelling” should read “the young break grammar and spelling (rules)”

· “to understand 10 year old” should read “to understand a 10 year old”.

· “without much of imagination.”, should read “without much of an imagination”, or preferably ”without much imagination”.

· “grammar, they don't” Sentence should end, i.e. “So, please be open to others grammar. They don't do it”.

· “others grammar” possessive apostrophe needed, should be “other’s grammar” i.e. the grammar that belongs to others (like “kid’s posting”, above).

· “They don't do it deliberately but mere mistakes.”, should read, “They don’t do it deliberately.” (“but mere mistakes” should read “but make mistakes” but in this instance, the “but make mistakes” is redundant).

· “BTW, how many grammar mistakes I had in this?” should read “BTW, how many grammar mistakes have I made here?”

I’m sure the professional writers (and even the journalists Tongue out) among us could improve on that.

Some of this is based on my writing style. Also, things like possessive apostrophes trip most people up (they are the subject of much grammatical debate). I have no English qualifications in writing or otherwise but it is my first language.

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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 79406 24-Jul-2007 10:32
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Damn, that's a lot of corrections.  Just one thing...

rwales Post 2: ...things like possessive apostrophes trip most people up...

rwales Post 1: Even people who's mother tongue is English...

Also, one thing I find a little bemusing is the number of people in England who murder their own mother tongue.





Post-geek, opinionated mediaphile, and natural born cynic. Jack of all genres, master of none.

268 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 79436 24-Jul-2007 14:00
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Wow... that's a lot..

I'm feel really lucky that I could get degree from NZ university even my grammar on English that bad.

Funny thing is that I was one of the best computer science student at that time.


122 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 79528 25-Jul-2007 03:41
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Also, one thing I find a little bemusing is the number of people in England who murder their own mother tongue.

You should see my code. Laughing

Wob

310 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 79587 25-Jul-2007 12:36
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Finally a group of technologically minded people who appreciate the value of proper English and grammar!!

I must be one of the few people left who uses proper English in my text messaging (gr8 2 here tht??!?).

Perhaps not as relevant in this medium, but pronunciation is my biggest pet hate. I returned to New Zealand after 11 years in Yurp to find that everyone in the country had forgotten how to pronounce "debut". Kiwis seem to love the word, and use it frequently, but it is not day-boo (sounds like a three year old having a bad morning).

Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. My chickens do not live in a coupe, most of them don't even know how to drive!!

There is considerable emphasis on the Maori language these days (and quite rightly so), so imagine the outcry if a news reader mispronounced  Taihape (Tie-happy?). If I was French, I would probably be rather annoyed every time a new All Black made his day-boo or the latest Holden coop is advertised. (Or is this subtle ongoing pay-back for the Rainbow Warrior?)

What would be the reaction from all the wine enthusiasts if we started calling it Peenut Noyre??!?




 

Now based in Perth WA.

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902 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 79603 25-Jul-2007 13:30
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Wob:Perhaps not as relevant in this medium, but pronunciation is my biggest pet hate. I returned to New Zealand after 11 years in Yurp to find that everyone in the country had forgotten how to pronounce "debut". Kiwis seem to love the word, and use it frequently, but it is not day-boo (sounds like a three year old having a bad morning).


Pretty sure this is American influence. Just like we all say 'rowter' while the Brits say 'rooter'. The Americans knock on the door of the Brits and say 'look at this thing we invented, it does the rowting, we call it a rowter' and the Brits say 'oh, you mean it does the rooting, we'll call it a rooter'. Then the Americans knock on our door and we simply say 'ok, it's a rowter', even though every other time we use the word route we pronounce it 'root' (and a 'rowter' is something used in woodwork).

Six years ago everyone here said "Afghanistahn" and now most people say "Afghanistan" (rhyming with 'man'). I wonder why.




 

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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 79633 25-Jul-2007 16:15
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Wob: I returned to New Zealand after 11 years in Yurp...

I bet you really missed the good old Kiwi "yeah nah" in conversations (what the hell is that?).




Post-geek, opinionated mediaphile, and natural born cynic. Jack of all genres, master of none.

Wob

310 posts

Ultimate Geek

NBN Co

  Reply # 79727 26-Jul-2007 09:10
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Pretty sure this is American influence. Just like we all say 'rowter' while the Brits say 'rooter'. The Americans knock on the door of the Brits and say 'look at this thing we invented, it does the rowting, we call it a rowter' and the Brits say 'oh, you mean it does the rooting, we'll call it a rooter'. Then the Americans knock on our door and we simply say 'ok, it's a rowter', even though every other time we use the word route we pronounce it 'root' (and a 'rowter' is something used in woodwork).

I always assumed that kiwis adopted the American pronunciation of router, due to the term root being a slang term for a sexual act. When I told people I used to install rooters, I got some weird looks and smirks in mixed company.

A similar thing happened whilst cabling on Canary Wharf. When I or one of my kiwi colleagues suggested we were running some data cables, all the cockneys would fall about laughing, going "dada dada". I was then informed that it's "daytah mate!" - "cor blimey, luv a duck, up the ol' apples and pears, stroll on" and so on...






 

Now based in Perth WA.

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Any comments or posts are not necessarily the opinion of my employer - who are bloody marvelous by the way.


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5809 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 82517 15-Aug-2007 15:35
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Have a read at my blog entry on "You're" or "Your" covering an embarrassing error made by a big company.




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676 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 82581 16-Aug-2007 09:36

Quick question: travelling or traveling? Traveller or traveler?




I is a kollege stoodent. Bee nice.

Wob

310 posts

Ultimate Geek

NBN Co

  Reply # 82582 16-Aug-2007 09:51
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I would say two "l"s every time - something to do with doubling the consonant after a short vowel sound.

When typed into Word, the spell checker corrects it to two "l"s - good old Microsoft, we can always rely on them!!?!




 

Now based in Perth WA.

Check out my blog
Any comments or posts are not necessarily the opinion of my employer - who are bloody marvelous by the way.


902 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 82585 16-Aug-2007 10:04
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ll if you like British spelling, l if you like American.

We use the former in our writing, so have to set the dictionary correctly otherwise Word automatically changes (e.g.) modelling to modeling.

Just found this: a rule for Americans on whether on or not to double the last consonant




 

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