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76 posts

Master Geek


  # 306930 13-Mar-2010 18:25
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I'd just like to pose another question that was discussed on another forum on this topic. I hope this isn't too far off the main topic of this particular thread.

It was stated on another forum by a member of both geekzone and this other forum that using ad blocking technology on geekzone was illegal and is theft.

I want to make it clear that the statements made on the other forum and here (by me at least) are purely based on the statement of the illegal nature of ad blocking and nothing to do with morals, ethics, respect for the site / staff etc. Those aspects should not come into this particular discussion.

So, is the use of ad blocking technology illegal on geekzone?

My main concern is that I utilise ad blocking technologies on a proxy providing internet access to the company I work for. I do this because at no extra cost, it will result in ever so slightly lower bandwidth costs, ever so slightly better bandwidth utilisation for work related purposes and ever so slight increases in employee productivity. As far as utilisation of company resources go, overall, ad blocking will have a positive effect therefore it should be done. If however, ad blocking is illegal on sites like this, then this will need to be reviewed.

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Ultimate Geek


  # 306932 13-Mar-2010 18:37
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I am not sure if it is illegal but sites have ads for a reason, they need to get revenue from somewhere




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76 posts

Master Geek


  # 306935 13-Mar-2010 18:45
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System: I am not sure if it is illegal but sites have ads for a reason, they need to get revenue from somewhere


Absolutely. I understand that and not debating it at all. The statement was purely that it was illegal and was theft and he wouldn't back down about it. I have not being able to find any statement, t&c or law that states it is illegal.

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  # 306939 13-Mar-2010 18:59
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PhantomNZ:
System: I am not sure if it is illegal but sites have ads for a reason, they need to get revenue from somewhere



Absolutely. I understand that and not debating it at all. The statement was purely that it was illegal and was theft and he wouldn't back down about it. I have not being able to find any statement, t&c or law that states it is illegal.


Isn't this a bit  like  the TV networks saying that fast forwarding thru the adds is theft??




Regards,

Old3eyes


521 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 306949 13-Mar-2010 19:40
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I don't think using something like that can be illegal as such, it could be against the sites terms and conditions maybe as an extreme measure and users could be removed for using them but your not breaking the law as far as im aware




PC: 3.3ghz Core i5-2500, 8gb DDR3, ATI Radeon 5850, 27" QHD IPS Monitor

Mobile Phone: iPhone 5 32gb Graphite.


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Uber Geek

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  # 306959 13-Mar-2010 20:27
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PhantomNZ: Absolutely. I understand that and not debating it at all. The statement was purely that it was illegal...

That is complete and utter bollocks.  It sounds to me like this person is trying to prey on the naive and ill-informed.

PhantomNZ: ...and was theft and he wouldn't back down about it.

Some site owners may view it as theft, and that is their prerogative.  Basically, they are trying to lay a guilt-trip on people, accusing them of getting something for nothing.

I must say that I have some sympathy with the site owner in this case, but trying to spin some BS that ad-blocking is illegal is only going to make them a laughing stock.

It all sounds very odd.  Are you sure that you correctly understood the posts placed by this person?

Perhaps a link to the posts on this other forum would be helpful, so others can make up their own mind as to what the intended meaning was.





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  # 306962 13-Mar-2010 21:12
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With publicly available websites (or forums) the owner does not have any real control over how their content is index/filtered/consumed/searched.

If you don't want to view ads on a site that you regularly visit because they are: annoying, get in the way, not relevant/well targeted and cause the pages to load around 2x slower that's your choice.  You have every right to use an ad blocker. It's your computer and browser, do whatever you want with it.

Trying to force all users to view ads that they don't want to see is never going to work and is an ineffective business model.

To quote Mike Masnick from Techdirt:

If a website is having trouble making money, it's their own fault. Don't blame the readers. Don't blame the community.  As the producers of that site, it's your responsibility to do things to get that site paid for.

Claiming that ad blocking is harming sites is like the recording industry claiming that piracy (or home taping) is killing music. Or it's like the newspaper industry claiming that aggregators are killing them. It's passing the blame.

If you run a company, it's your responsibility to put together a business model that works. And if people are somehow figuring out ways to do what they want where you don't get paid, then it means you're doing something that needs to change.

A good business model is one where everyone is happy with the transaction, not one where one party feels forced or coerced into accepting something they don't want.



 




 
 
 
 


BDFL - Memuneh
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  # 306981 13-Mar-2010 22:12
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PhantomNZ: I want to make it clear that the statements made on the other forum and here (by me at least) are purely based on the statement of the illegal nature of ad blocking and nothing to do with morals, ethics, respect for the site / staff etc. Those aspects should not come into this particular discussion.

So, is the use of ad blocking technology illegal on geekzone?


There's no law in the world that says ad blocking is illegal. Whoever said that in this other forum is out of his/her mind.

Ragnor: If you don't want to view ads on a site that you regularly visit because they are: annoying, get in the way, not relevant/well targeted and cause the pages to load around 2x slower that's your choice.  You have every right to use an ad blocker. It's your computer and browser, do whatever you want with it.


Correct. Some publishers will work to make things better though - as I said in the last few weeks we habe been working with Aptimize to make Geekzone even faster. We have changed database settings, adjusted indexes, changed the forums pages to use less resources, changed the way email notifications are sent out to speed up the forum when posting.

From what I've been testing with browser tools and third party tests in the US and New Zealand it seems we managed to reduce the time a page takes to load in about two seconds. It doesn't sound like much but six seconds is a good number - we keep page sizes small, we use Aptimize to create image sprites to reduce browser requests and speed up loading, etc.

Every day I look at the code behind Geekzone and manage to change one line or another that makes a difference. Believe me we really try hard to make it faster.

I know some people don't like ads - some people don't actually know why they don't like ads - but in our case we do a lot to make the site faster every day.

As for revenue, as said before we do have to pay things - colocation, data traffic, firewall, local peering, tax, GST, salaries, ACC, whatever else. It's not cheap to run this and the advertising revenue goes into these expenses.

I've put my case forward, so I don't think I need to keep repeating myself.






521 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 307019 14-Mar-2010 08:11
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And that is why i don't block the ads on this site




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Mobile Phone: iPhone 5 32gb Graphite.


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  # 307112 14-Mar-2010 16:42
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It was me, but I did NOT say it was illegal as that is crazy. I did say it was stealing, because
If your viewing the page and blocking the ads, then the site owner is deprived of in interest in the site property, the ad income.

The thread is over here

23 posts

Geek


  # 307196 14-Mar-2010 20:59
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http://forums.slingshot.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3367&start=60

I believe on that page you quote someone asking you to find a nz law to say it's illegal, you replied with something that its depriving them of income, therefore it must be, what else could it be called.

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  # 307199 14-Mar-2010 21:16
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nziced: http://forums.slingshot.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3367&start=60

I believe on that page you quote someone asking you to find a nz law to say it's illegal, you replied with something that its depriving them of income, therefore it must be, what else could it be called.


And I think you wrote in that discussion "Freedom of speech covers the freedom to stop annoying ads saying "you are the 1,999,999,999,999,999th visitor, click here to get your prize(enter your email and join there mailing list of crap)"

This is not the type of ads we have on Geekzone.

You also wrote "Geekzone has god awful ad placement and is quite a shocking forum tbh"... Just so everyone is on the same page, and know you don't like it here anyway.







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