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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 354184 20-Jul-2010 21:05
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Detruire: With the exception of no ads (which, lets be honest, can be blocked)


There's a difference though - "No ads" means we don't even send down the pipe the scripts, so not only the html response is smaller, but the browser has less things to load - even if you have an adblock it still slower than this.
 
Of course you could say you are not worried about the html length, or the ads usage - which in turn let me ask "why block?"...







BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 354186 20-Jul-2010 21:09
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jaymz:
freitasm: I have no idea... It depends on lots of different factors - page views for ads that pay per impression, clicks on ads that pay per click, country, city...


The reason I ask is that if a person spent a large amount of time on the site would they generate more than $60 a year thus provide a better income than if they subscribed?

Do you know which ads generate income by simply loading and which by clicking on them? 

If you know which ones you get income by clicking then I wouldn't mind clicking on them from time to time to help you out!


First we can not ask people to click in ads - this is a violation of a few T&C.

Next, to know how much each person makes for us would involve knowing that person individually, and we don't do this - and with so many different ad providers we wouldn't be able to do it.

Let's say we make $0.05 per visit (not visitor) - this is a good number, probably close to actual revenue. We would still not know exactly because we would have visits from NZ, US, UK, AU, IN in order (NZ and US make about 80% of our traffic). We then have ads that run only in certain countries... Things start getting interesting. We could say New Zealand traffic generates more money, but on a per visit it looks like US traffic makes more.

Also I know that logged in users make 20% of the visitors, but generate 80% of the traffic. Then things start getting interesting. Big spreadsheets showing up...





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  Reply # 354196 20-Jul-2010 21:26
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freitasm:
jaymz:
freitasm: I have no idea... It depends on lots of different factors - page views for ads that pay per impression, clicks on ads that pay per click, country, city...


The reason I ask is that if a person spent a large amount of time on the site would they generate more than $60 a year thus provide a better income than if they subscribed?

Do you know which ads generate income by simply loading and which by clicking on them? 

If you know which ones you get income by clicking then I wouldn't mind clicking on them from time to time to help you out!


First we can not ask people to click in ads - this is a violation of a few T&C.

Next, to know how much each person makes for us would involve knowing that person individually, and we don't do this - and with so many different ad providers we wouldn't be able to do it.

Let's say we make $0.05 per visit (not visitor) - this is a good number, probably close to actual revenue. We would still not know exactly because we would have visits from NZ, US, UK, AU, IN in order (NZ and US make about 80% of our traffic). We then have ads that run only in certain countries... Things start getting interesting. We could say New Zealand traffic generates more money, but on a per visit it looks like US traffic makes more.

Also I know that logged in users make 20% of the visitors, but generate 80% of the traffic. Then things start getting interesting. Big spreadsheets showing up...



No worries, I really have no idea about website administration or about ads so excuse the silly questions.

Back on topic though, a few ideas to get people to subscribe:

1. The neat promotions that you run (win stuff), maybe you could save some for subscribers only?  Makes subscribing more attractive as less people will be in the draw (unless that goes against any rules of course)

2. The ability to have an animated avatar (if that is possible - tried it with my account awhile back but it didn't work)

I don't think the subscriber's only forums are every going to be popular. For one, people are not really going to want to subscribe just to see what is in the forum. And casual surfers who find topics via google are going to be turned off at the idea of having to subscribe to view content (assuming that google can cache those pages).

I will have a think a bit more tonight for any other neat features you could enable for subscribers and let you know.

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  Reply # 354202 20-Jul-2010 21:34
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freitasm: Of course you could say you are not worried about the html length, or the ads usage - which in turn let me ask "why block?"...


There is a difference between 100kB worth of flash, images, and extra JS and ~1kB of text.

However, the biggest reasons that I can think of to block ads are that:
1) The total saved bandwidth can add up to a fair bit (definitely not GB, but ~50MB wouldn't surprise me over a month or so)
2) Most websites look much better without the ads cluttering them up (and distracting the visitor)




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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 354203 20-Jul-2010 21:36
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And how you reconcile the idea that you are not allowing those sites to realise some revenue from the adverts?

Or you folks using ad blockers just think "others aren't using ad blockers so it will be ok?"





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  Reply # 354212 20-Jul-2010 21:57
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At school I learned that if one person does something that is considered bad, everyone should be punished because of it.
Therefore, as enough people/companies filled their sites with ads that I finally grew sick of it (I used to just block really annoying and "you're the 1,000,000,000th visitor" type ads) and caved in to the easy block list.


If I like a site enough, I'll turn off Adblock (for that site) and leave it off if the ads don't annoy me too much.




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  Reply # 354213 20-Jul-2010 21:59
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I generally hate ads, and have even removed adsence from my own website, but I have adblock disabled for Geekzone, partially as my way of "subscribing" and they also they are more interesting on a targeted website like this than general browsing.

I actually bought something off a Geekzone ad once.

P.S. Also I hate signatures, disabling those might tempt me into subscribing.

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  Reply # 354217 20-Jul-2010 22:06
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Contextual ads don't bother me, so long as they're not too large and tie into the theme of the site (the Geekzone ones are ugly - imo the blue is too dark, and the red obnoxious)

I'm not saying that they should be identical, but that they shouldn't be a slap in the face.




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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 354222 20-Jul-2010 22:14
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Oncop53: P.S. Also I hate signatures, disabling those might tempt me into subscribing.


There's something I didn't think and can easily add - great idea and I will work on this late this week.





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  Reply # 354235 20-Jul-2010 22:37
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Oncop53: P.S. Also I hate signatures, disabling those might tempt me into subscribing.

Sounds neat, would probably be a better incentive to subscribe for me personally.

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  Reply # 354258 20-Jul-2010 23:11
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Geekzone isn't slow with the ads displayed - but its definitely faster as a subscriber (Or over IPv6 as well at the moment). Blocking ads is kinda like standing at the supermarket eating all the free samples without actually buying anything. 

I subscribe because you provide a very valuable and neutral meeting place between the industry and our users. GP Forums might answer questions, but it doesn't let you feel the pulse of the industry like Geekzone does.

I also have a good understanding of the costs, even for just hosting, that is associated with running a site as popular as Geekzone. Not sure if people realise this isn't a $5 per month shared hosting environment - there's serious hardware, management and traffic involved.




I work for a Hosting Provider - But my opinions are my own.

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  Reply # 354260 20-Jul-2010 23:12
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I have to agree that even though i'm not a subscriber the incentive to become one other than do so for recognition of Mauricio's hard work (and of course the other moderators) is just not there.

Sure browsing ad free is not a bad one but like many others have commented you can just use ad blockers to prevent them so that's sorta negated.

Maybe like someone else suggested subscriber only prize draws would be good enough for some to pay out what is already a low subscription fee. The prizes don't even have to be big they are solely there to do what the subscription fee does for you. Recognise that they are contributing.

Or maybe just a once or twice a year draw for subscribers like a xmas draw (could get some sponsors involved like the GZ Freeview Pizza Nights. Or even tie into those awesome events where not only do they get the chance to register early you also offer some of the prizes solely for subscribers who have maybe subscribed for at least 6 months or more.

People are cheap (in general obviously not all) and a lot of people have commented that there is no real benefit. Make a real benefit that they can see and they will think twice about whether the small outlay to support a site we all love (honestly this is probably my most visited site other than NZ Herald (which is my homepage)).

You do great work here and your efforts are hugely appreciated. I just have to agree with a lot of the negative comments about the value/benefit for the subscription is just not something a lot of users feel is worth it. (Please do not think I am saying it's worthless) I intend when a little more financial (silly me for having way too many kids) will subscribe solely to recognise what you do for me.

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  Reply # 354274 20-Jul-2010 23:35
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I know everyone has their own preferences and financial situations but I want to say to all those that say they like GZ and use it heaps but ad-block and to a much lesser extent those that don't subscribe . . .

There is a real risk this site will have to be closed down one day through insufficient income. Everyone wants everything for free and the internet makes this easy with a lot of things but at the end of the day everything has a cost.

If most people walked into magazine shops and read the magazines and then walked out without buying, one day the rent, wages, etc would be more than the income and the shop would close. Ads allow GZ to cover costs without you having to pay, a luxury magazine shops don't have, but if the scales tip too far in the ad-blocking vs not direction then this WILL be the death of GZ, a great Kiwi-made community that we would all miss . . .

P.S. This is totally off my own back, not commissioned by Mauricio or in any way requested or hinted at. Moderator's receive no financial reward here at GZ and very few other "benefits" (the odd product launch/review opportunity is the extent of it.) We do it for the love of it :-)

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Reply # 354278 20-Jul-2010 23:40
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Interesting thoughts around more features to make more people sign up as subscribers, there are already a good amount, maybe we need a couple more to push people over that edge.

Scott (above) really has hit the nail on the head - if you regularly use Geekzone as a resource, consider helping out with the monthly cost.  It really is bugger all.


Disclaimer: I too am an volunteer :)

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  Reply # 354295 21-Jul-2010 01:44
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I have almost done it before, but ended up not remembering my PayPal login info and then magically falling asleep. I will eventually.

I work for a company called Unleash - They offer Web Services for businesses and I can tell you now, web hosting is frikken' expensive here in NZ, this site runs on Windows Servers and unlike Linux there's licensing costs to run them, plus there's colocation, bandwidth, server maintenance cost's, coffee... The list goes on. I do use this site quite a bit and will end up becoming a subscriber.

I am guilty also, I do run Adblock, but then again there's gotta be more than me on this forum that runs Adblock. Most of the time I am one of those people that browse from a IPv6 address and don't experience ads for the moment.

I will be a subscriber eventually, but paying off my massive Vodafone Bills + other debts is more important.




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