Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 
Awesome
4780 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1059

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 750311 24-Jan-2013 16:45
Send private message

The reasons for Vodafone not allowing you to use another ISP to run a sure signal are almost entirely commercial.

Sure there are some technical 'challenges' that are easier to manage when you have end to end control, but nothing that is a show stopper (as evidenced by the fact other networks overseas allow this).




Twitter: ajobbins


677 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 27

Trusted

  Reply # 750402 24-Jan-2013 20:21
Send private message

Yeah I'am aware thats the case, i was really just trying to poke the bear with a stick;)
No really compelling reason not to allow it, just convenient ones.

Of course that is said with no knowledge of how it is implemented in Vodafone, its entirely possible its done in a way that means allowing third parties on board could have security implications etc.

Paul




meat popsicle

 
 
 
 




2307 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 610


  Reply # 750408 24-Jan-2013 20:40
Send private message

jjnz1: The Vodafone guy from NZNOG said in his speech that QOS was not the barrier to other ISP's carrying traffic from the Suresignal. In fact other countries (VF UK) do allow just that quite successfully.

From his perspective it was purely a marketing decision and not engineering.

Oooo, and I got the tail end of his speech regarding the use of signal boosters over external RBI infrastructure/antennas.
Can someone else who was there elaborate? From memory some kind of booster device was months away from retail release?


Highly interested in this myself, I'd you hear any more yet?

25833 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5557

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 750417 24-Jan-2013 21:06
Send private message

jjnz1: The Vodafone guy from NZNOG said in his speech that QOS was not the barrier to other ISP's carrying traffic from the Suresignal. In fact other countries (VF UK) do allow just that quite successfully.

From his perspective it was purely a marketing decision and not engineering.



Vodafone UK do it because use of the Sure Signal is restricted to selected handsets that you register in the device. Vodafone NZ let any device connect and zero rate the traffic.

NZ is one of the few places where you don't have to maintain a register of allowed devices. The implications of allowing unrestricted use of the Sure Signal on other ISP's where zero rated data doesn't exist are massive, if Vodafone allowed it I'm sure there would be 50+ page threads now abusing Vodafone because customer X on ISP Y has a $300 bill because everybody in the neighbourhood was using their Sure Signal!





2307 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 610


  Reply # 750441 24-Jan-2013 21:54
Send private message

sbiddle:
jjnz1: The Vodafone guy from NZNOG said in his speech that QOS was not the barrier to other ISP's carrying traffic from the Suresignal. In fact other countries (VF UK) do allow just that quite successfully.

From his perspective it was purely a marketing decision and not engineering.



Vodafone UK do it because use of the Sure Signal is restricted to selected handsets that you register in the device. Vodafone NZ let any device connect and zero rate the traffic.

NZ is one of the few places where you don't have to maintain a register of allowed devices. The implications of allowing unrestricted use of the Sure Signal on other ISP's where zero rated data doesn't exist are massive, if Vodafone allowed it I'm sure there would be 50+ page threads now abusing Vodafone because customer X on ISP Y has a $300 bill because everybody in the neighbourhood was using their Sure Signal!




So let it be a user set option on initial config?

When setting up the device (cd wizard etc.) ASK, do you want to register the devices that can use this connection, or allow anyone to use this device?

With a WARNING, YOU WILL BE LIABLE FOR THE BANDWIDTH blah blah blah, type disclaimed as confirmation message?


Then the user has no leg if they trash their cap?

Better yet, VF can pay the peanuts it cost for their customers to get the advantage of reception where there was none before?


And, to muddy the waters.... Why only allow VF customer cells to connect?

Don't they get paid from 2degrees for the roaming customers?

Surely data on my ADSL is cheaper than on their towers for them anyway?

BDFL - Memuneh
59430 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10647

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 750444 24-Jan-2013 21:57
Send private message

Regardless of "warnings" there will be users who will complain later because "I didn't see any warning" and then taking them to Fair Go to complain and ask for a bill reduction from their ISP...







2307 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 610


  Reply # 750445 24-Jan-2013 21:59
Send private message

freitasm: Regardless of "warnings" there will be users who will complain later because "I didn't see any warning" and then taking them to Fair Go to complain and ask for a bill reduction from their ISP...



So do it the other way by default?

Lock it to 'set' devices and allow it to be opened in some hidden admin page (like the one in my hg556a VF router) that only geeks like us will google for explicitly?

25833 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5557

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 750984 25-Jan-2013 21:25
Send private message

PhantomNVD:And, to muddy the waters.... Why only allow VF customer cells to connect?

Don't they get paid from 2degrees for the roaming customers?

Surely data on my ADSL is cheaper than on their towers for them anyway?


Femto's have heavy integration direct into the core network. Roaming works very differently.


19282 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2600
Inactive user


  Reply # 750993 25-Jan-2013 21:46
Send private message

sbiddle:
PhantomNVD:And, to muddy the waters.... Why only allow VF customer cells to connect?

Don't they get paid from 2degrees for the roaming customers?

Surely data on my ADSL is cheaper than on their towers for them anyway?


Femto's have heavy integration direct into the core network. Roaming works very differently.



I suggest you do a Google search how the Sure Signal works quite complex

BDFL - Memuneh
59430 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10647

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 751027 25-Jan-2013 22:32
Send private message

PhantomNVD: And, to muddy the waters.... Why only allow VF customer cells to connect?


I don't know where you got this piece of information from. When I tried the Sure Signal during the product launch I was able to connect my Amazon Kindle Keyboard 3G to the femtocell and browse the Amazon store as if it was just a normal cell site.

You have to understand that 2degrees "roaming" is geo limited. If there's a 2degrees cell site in a region then Vodafone will not accept connections from 2degrees customers even if there isn't a 2degrees signal in that exact location.






1062 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 68

Subscriber

  Reply # 751033 25-Jan-2013 22:59
Send private message

freitasm:
PhantomNVD: And, to muddy the waters.... Why only allow VF customer cells to connect?


I don't know where you got this piece of information from. When I tried the Sure Signal during the product launch I was able to connect my Amazon Kindle Keyboard 3G to the femtocell and browse the Amazon store as if it was just a normal cell site.

You have to understand that 2degrees "roaming" is geo limited. If there's a 2degrees cell site in a region then Vodafone will not accept connections from 2degrees customers even if there isn't a 2degrees signal in that exact location.




Correct, but as I understand it, that black and white roaming agreement was only for the 'main' initial geo-regions.

For example if you have no 2 degrees signal at Makara wind farm, but lots of Vodafone, tough! But areas like Taupo are a different story. My phone chooses the best one, often the stronger VF -which suits me very well.

(Note: I don't mean Taupo CBD, but more rural).

25833 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5557

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 751068 26-Jan-2013 07:24
Send private message

jjnz1:
freitasm:
PhantomNVD: And, to muddy the waters.... Why only allow VF customer cells to connect?


I don't know where you got this piece of information from. When I tried the Sure Signal during the product launch I was able to connect my Amazon Kindle Keyboard 3G to the femtocell and browse the Amazon store as if it was just a normal cell site.

You have to understand that 2degrees "roaming" is geo limited. If there's a 2degrees cell site in a region then Vodafone will not accept connections from 2degrees customers even if there isn't a 2degrees signal in that exact location.




Correct, but as I understand it, that black and white roaming agreement was only for the 'main' initial geo-regions.

For example if you have no 2 degrees signal at Makara wind farm, but lots of Vodafone, tough! But areas like Taupo are a different story. My phone chooses the best one, often the stronger VF -which suits me very well.

(Note: I don't mean Taupo CBD, but more rural).


The initial roaming agreement covered everywhere outside Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Queenstown, ie everywhere 2degrees didn't have a network. Within side the geographic boundaries of the 2degrees coverage you can't roam on Vodafone. This is something 2degrees need to happen, as roaming steering isn't an effective way of preventing people from using a roaming network, you need to lock this down to prevent it from even being able to happen.

As for outside these regions as 2degrees have deployed their network roaming has been blocked once the expension has been integrated into the network and has gone live. In some areas this hasn't yet happened, but ultimately will as 2degrees need customers on their network, not roaming.

1 | 2 | 3 
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New Zealand's IT industry in 2018 and beyond
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:50


Introducing your new workplace headache: Gen Z
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:45


Jucy set to introduce electric campervan fleet
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:41


Hawaiki cable system will be ready for service in June 2018
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:32


New Zealand hits peak broadband data
Posted 18-Jan-2018 12:21


Amazon Echo devices coming to New Zealand early February 2018
Posted 18-Jan-2018 10:53


$3.74 million for new electric vehicles in New Zealand
Posted 17-Jan-2018 11:27


Nova 2i: Value, not excitement from Huawei
Posted 17-Jan-2018 09:02


Less news in Facebook News Feed revamp
Posted 15-Jan-2018 13:15


Australian Government contract awarded to Datacom Connect
Posted 11-Jan-2018 08:37


Why New Zealand needs a chief technology officer
Posted 6-Jan-2018 13:59


Amazon release Silk Browser and Firefox for Fire TV
Posted 21-Dec-2017 13:42


New Chief Technology Officer role created
Posted 19-Dec-2017 22:18


All I want for Christmas is a new EV
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:54


How clever is this: AI will create 2.3 million jobs by 2020
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:52



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.