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  #795907 9-Apr-2013 23:37
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Get fiber if possible..

Have a look at my speedtest result in the signature ;-)





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  #795909 9-Apr-2013 23:45
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shrub: just out of curiosity what router is vodafone giving out with warp speed?


Last time I looked, the Warpspeed packages offered a Netcomm NP805N, which is a 5 port GigE based, 802.11N wifi capable router.

It does the job, it doesn't have a lot of bells or whistles but you can push a good deal of data through it, most certainly when its hard wired and with the right Wireless chipsets, you can push 65-70Mb wirelessly.  It works best with it's own (Netcomm) USB2 wifi adapters (hates Cisco and D-Link).

I am not sure if they still offer these or have gone out/away from them.




"Customers don’t expect you to be perfect. They do expect you to fix things when they go wrong." Donald Porter – British Airways

The views expressed here are my own and are not reflective of other organisms or organisations.

 
 
 
 


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  #795911 9-Apr-2013 23:50
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nakedmolerat: Get fiber if possible..


NMR, were there any crazy install costs to the fibre, the sort of thing they might want to charge you to trench/plow the fibre from the kerb to your entry point at the house?

Or is there some sort of standard install fee that covers X meters from kerb to house, beyond that, you pay  extra?

Just curious.




"Customers don’t expect you to be perfect. They do expect you to fix things when they go wrong." Donald Porter – British Airways

The views expressed here are my own and are not reflective of other organisms or organisations.

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  #795912 9-Apr-2013 23:59
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DoomlordVekk:
DonGould:
The eth card is 100mbit at layer 2 at most, where as iirc the VF Warp service is 100mbit at layer 3, so it's actually running faster than 100mbit... DV if you're about you might like to correct me.



For these exercises, the difference in throughput at L2 or L3 isn't big enough to really worth worrying about.

The Ookla software that a lot of the speedtest sites use is different sized .jpg images of basically random noise.  The biggest from memory is ~31MB, and it is a simple timing exercise to see how long it takes upload or download these files.


Yeah it's about that, to do a better test on a linux box can do:

curl -O http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/speedtest/random4000x4000.jpg
curl -O http://speedtest.wxnz.net/speedtest/random4000x4000.jpg

curl -O http://speedtest3.telecom.co.nz/speedtest/random4000x4000.jpg

etc. (it actually seems to be 30.1mb)

The download test is consistent "random" jpegs with a parameter to make the content seem dynamic.  It doesn't change all the time, so in theory tcp accelerators doing deduplication could show unrealistically high speeds for international hosts.  Although I don't know if that kind of thing happens yet.

The upload test on the other hand is highly compressable, so if you use a dialup modem, or an adsl modem that supports compression you can get grossly inflated results.  (10megabit+ on normal adsl)

The l2/l3 thing may just be that the traffic policer on the cable network is allowing some level of burst before it cuts off speeds.  so you may be able to do 120 megabit/sec for half a second, then be cut down to 90 megabit/sec, then go back up to 120 megabit/sec etc... and then have all of that averaging out to "about 100 megabit" but depending if your download finishes on a 120 megabit/sec or 90 megabit/sec window giving different results...



It's easy to throw LOTS of UDP or random data at an interface and call it a speedtest but it also negates all the normal TCP handshaking, windowing etc that goes on, which ultimately controls the throughput of a TCP connection.

TCP depends on errors, to determine what actual window size of data can be kept in flight, given current network conditions.  TCP/IP is really the cockroach of the network protocol world, it'll continue to work, albeit badly and at the cost of goodput, in almost all network impairment condidtions.


Try using a connection with 50% packet loss :/

If you throw 100 megabit of UDP and get 98 megabit back then assuming the sender isn't blocking trying to send enough data, you're going to be receiving packet loss that'll effect TCP/IP performance. 

As resilient as TCP/IP it can be very complicated to operate near maximum utilisation without negative side effects.  Even minor packet loss to distant locations can slow transfers right down and take forever to recover.  And even 0.5% packet loss can impair performance significantly.


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  #795913 10-Apr-2013 00:00
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DoomlordVekk:
shrub: just out of curiosity what router is vodafone giving out with warp speed?


Last time I looked, the Warpspeed packages offered a Netcomm NP805N, which is a 5 port GigE based, 802.11N wifi capable router.

It does the job, it doesn't have a lot of bells or whistles but you can push a good deal of data through it, most certainly when its hard wired and with the right Wireless chipsets, you can push 65-70Mb wirelessly.  It works best with it's own (Netcomm) USB2 wifi adapters (hates Cisco and D-Link).

I am not sure if they still offer these or have gone out/away from them.


Oh so they do routers now?  Is that by defautl?


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  #795916 10-Apr-2013 00:06
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They were available at the launch back in April last year but the only way to know for sure now would be to put a call into the Orders/Provisioning phoneline and ask them if there is an included router they offer on the WarpSpeed packages.

That is all I can suggest sorry.




"Customers don’t expect you to be perfect. They do expect you to fix things when they go wrong." Donald Porter – British Airways

The views expressed here are my own and are not reflective of other organisms or organisations.

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  #795921 10-Apr-2013 07:09
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DoomlordVekk:
nakedmolerat: Get fiber if possible..


NMR, were there any crazy install costs to the fibre, the sort of thing they might want to charge you to trench/plow the fibre from the kerb to your entry point at the house?

Or is there some sort of standard install fee that covers X meters from kerb to house, beyond that, you pay  extra?

Just curious.


No extra charge as long as I get it on 12 months contracy or more.

Took them 2 full day to get it installed





 
 
 
 


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  #797011 10-Apr-2013 10:32
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DoomlordVekk:
It's easy to throw LOTS of UDP or random data at an interface and call it a speedtest but it also negates all the normal TCP handshaking, windowing etc that goes on, which ultimately controls the throughput of a TCP connection.


Agreed.

This really is about consumer education around expectations.

I think consumers need to understand that 100mbit is the Peek Information Rate that can be expected and that if they want to relate this to something that's better understood, then it's the same as a car manufacture saying that their car will do a top speed of x.

My example of UDP traffic was a comment based on mercutio and I actually doing a range of testing on my Warp service just after it was installed.

We found that UDP would almost hit line rate once I updated the routers and switches. 

TCP traffic was very different depending on global destination, and the dynamics of that on the Vodafone HFC network are already well understood by folk here.

I am quite sure you will testify to the fact that I am a critic of the VF HFC network and well skilled enough to give it a 'reasonable' run for it's money from a consumer point of view (though not as skilled as those who designed and built it.)

In my view the network can and does deliver reasonable performance within the price point and frame work that it's delivered to consumers including the marketing presentation of the network (unlike some networks and marketing that have washed under this trolls bridge in the past, from other vendors).







Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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  #797371 10-Apr-2013 20:02
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Did some tests over ethernet with a core technician at Snap (friend of mine) and only got 12mbit down max from their gear at around 8pm. And even with speed test sites, as flawed as they are... I've only got at best a 14mbit down peak speed for NZ servers. 

Great upstream however, haha.




– J

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  #797382 10-Apr-2013 20:17
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jermsie: Did some tests over ethernet with a core technician at Snap (friend of mine) and only got 12mbit down max from their gear at around 8pm. And even with speed test sites, as flawed as they are... I've only got at best a 14mbit down peak speed for NZ servers. 

Great upstream however, haha.


if you test using iperf, you can use -b 20m to do 20 megabit udp, or you can use -P 4 to do 4 parallel connections with tcp/ip.

if it can't do 20 megabit to snap (who directly connect to telstraclear) then something's broken i reckon.


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  #797388 10-Apr-2013 20:34
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mercutio:
jermsie: Did some tests over ethernet with a core technician at Snap (friend of mine) and only got 12mbit down max from their gear at around 8pm. And even with speed test sites, as flawed as they are... I've only got at best a 14mbit down peak speed for NZ servers. 

Great upstream however, haha.


if you test using iperf, you can use -b 20m to do 20 megabit udp, or you can use -P 4 to do 4 parallel connections with tcp/ip.

if it can't do 20 megabit to snap (who directly connect to telstraclear) then something's broken i reckon.



I'll post results. Could be useful info for the thread.

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  #797543 11-Apr-2013 08:13
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Upgraded yesterday

On the old Telstraclear speed test through our WRP400 best results are 48Mb/s, go directly to the modem over LAN and that jumps up to 98 Mb/s.

Now back to having the router in play, over the Lan downloading 4 files with 5 connections each from US based severs I was getting speeds of around 3000KB/s (approx 21 Mb/s). I am very happy with this performance (internationally), as in the past the best I could get was approx 12Mb/s. Waiting for the impending arrival of my new router to see if it increases the speed

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  #797582 11-Apr-2013 09:38
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itxtme: Upgraded yesterday

On the old Telstraclear speed test through our WRP400 best results are 48Mb/s, go directly to the modem over LAN and that jumps up to 98 Mb/s.

Now back to having the router in play, over the Lan downloading 4 files with 5 connections each from US based severs I was getting speeds of around 3000KB/s (approx 21 Mb/s). I am very happy with this performance (internationally), as in the past the best I could get was approx 12Mb/s. Waiting for the impending arrival of my new router to see if it increases the speed



...and this folks is why I spend my days pushing telcos to speed infrastructure up!  The follow on effect is that people like this guy then go out and buy a new 'something'. 

It's why we need to continue to push for bigger and bigger data caps in the 1 and 2Tb space.

It drives the rest of the industry in my view.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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  #797592 11-Apr-2013 09:46
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DonGould:
itxtme: Upgraded yesterday

On the old Telstraclear speed test through our WRP400 best results are 48Mb/s, go directly to the modem over LAN and that jumps up to 98 Mb/s.

Now back to having the router in play, over the Lan downloading 4 files with 5 connections each from US based severs I was getting speeds of around 3000KB/s (approx 21 Mb/s). I am very happy with this performance (internationally), as in the past the best I could get was approx 12Mb/s. Waiting for the impending arrival of my new router to see if it increases the speed



...and this folks is why I spend my days pushing telcos to speed infrastructure up!  The follow on effect is that people like this guy then go out and buy a new 'something'. 

It's why we need to continue to push for bigger and bigger data caps in the 1 and 2Tb space.

It drives the rest of the industry in my view.




Usage from the rest of the world, including data usage in areas with no caps, strongly suggest you're wrong. The number of people that NEED 1/2TB today is approximately zero. The number that will need it in 12 months is approximately zero. The number of people that will need it in 2 years might register in the low single percentage figures but I suspect not.

And if it does, You can be sure the ISPs in a competitive environment won't ignore them.

Pushing for it now is bluntly pointless.

Cheers - N\





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  #797596 11-Apr-2013 09:51
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Streaming high def for a significant number of hours per day is the only way I can think to use that sort of bandwidth.

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