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  #797598 11-Apr-2013 09:53
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DonGould:
itxtme: Upgraded yesterday

On the old Telstraclear speed test through our WRP400 best results are 48Mb/s, go directly to the modem over LAN and that jumps up to 98 Mb/s.

Now back to having the router in play, over the Lan downloading 4 files with 5 connections each from US based severs I was getting speeds of around 3000KB/s (approx 21 Mb/s). I am very happy with this performance (internationally), as in the past the best I could get was approx 12Mb/s. Waiting for the impending arrival of my new router to see if it increases the speed



...and this folks is why I spend my days pushing telcos to speed infrastructure up!  The follow on effect is that people like this guy then go out and buy a new 'something'. 

It's why we need to continue to push for bigger and bigger data caps in the 1 and 2Tb space.

It drives the rest of the industry in my view.




A few carriers already offer 1TB data caps today over xDSL connections including Vodafone NZ


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  #797604 11-Apr-2013 09:57
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DonGould:
...and this folks is why I spend my days pushing telcos to speed infrastructure up!  The follow on effect is that people like this guy then go out and buy a new 'something'. 

It's why we need to continue to push for bigger and bigger data caps in the 1 and 2Tb space.

It drives the rest of the industry in my view.




I couldn't disagree more.

Most people seem to think of the USA as the home of cheap flat rate internet, with most people being on "unlimited" plans (many of which now have ~250GB caps).

Despite this average usage in the US is only around 33.4GB per user for 2015 based on Cisco's VNI and forecast to hit 47GB by 2015.




 
 
 
 


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  #797618 11-Apr-2013 10:13
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timmmay: Streaming high def for a significant number of hours per day is the only way I can think to use that sort of bandwidth.


3mbps (excellent Hidef streaming bitrate) for 12 hours a day all month gives approx 474GB.

That's 12 hours a day. If you have a job, or a girlfriend, or know how to use your front door, or a dog, or friends - then I would respectfully suggest that 12 hours a day is on the exceptionally high end of use. And keeping that up 7 days a week/365 days/yr isn't feasible.

Assume someone normal(ish) at the high end...

Works during the day, gets home at 6pm, has dinner, watches media from 6:30pm to 1am 5 days a week, and 3pm to 1am on the weekend. That's ~210hours/month which is approx 276GB/month.

Yes, there will be places with 4 flatmates all doing this. I would again suggest that they are phenomenally uncommon, and that they should at least figure out some stuff to watch together rather than all streaming the same TV shows every night 5 minutes offset in their rooms :-)

Cheers - N





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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  #797624 11-Apr-2013 10:17
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Steve, John, Neil, thank you for highlighting my point.

https://internetnz.net.nz/our-work/Access/Data-caps

I recently followed this project up, which has now been marked as completed.

A comment that came back was "telecom is offering 75Gb for the same price Voda is offering 12gb and there is no mass transfer between the two it prob means that most voda customers are happy with 12."

Allan Freeth is quoted as saying that consumers often purchase twice as much data as they use because they are so sensitive to bill shock.

I fully agree this stuff plays both ways. Telco's aren't delivering data at a sensible price point, so consumers aren't purchasing equipment that will use it as they don't have it.

It is very chicken and egg.

I agree the ball is very much back with the consumer right now.

Speed is in play, yet people are only dribbling to it. Data is in play yet consumers aren't moving to it.

What I don't know, of course, is just how many of those VF 12Gb customers are locked in a contract currently and not actually able to move so just not paying attention to the marketing anyway?

I do have to give credit to VF who have dropped the price point and added value to the HFC network and providers generally who are putting an end to these low volume plans.

As for the US. I really don't care, so I think you should all stop presenting them as a point of reference (to me at least).

I'm interested in what's happening in Australia as a point of reference.




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  #797625 11-Apr-2013 10:18
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DonGould:
itxtme: Upgraded yesterday

On the old Telstraclear speed test through our WRP400 best results are 48Mb/s, go directly to the modem over LAN and that jumps up to 98 Mb/s.

Now back to having the router in play, over the Lan downloading 4 files with 5 connections each from US based severs I was getting speeds of around 3000KB/s (approx 21 Mb/s). I am very happy with this performance (internationally), as in the past the best I could get was approx 12Mb/s. Waiting for the impending arrival of my new router to see if it increases the speed



...and this folks is why I spend my days pushing telcos to speed infrastructure up!  The follow on effect is that people like this guy then go out and buy a new 'something'. 

It's why we need to continue to push for bigger and bigger data caps in the 1 and 2Tb space.

It drives the rest of the industry in my view.


I am confused, what is this 'new something'  You are referring to?

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  #797637 11-Apr-2013 10:24
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itxtme: I am confused, what is this 'new something'  You are referring to?


Sorry for the confusion.

In your case the 'new something' was a router.

In my case Warp 100 caused me to upgrade:

1 * Edge router - RB750 to RB750G
1 * Home Business router - Engenious 1221R to RB751

Then we installed a Unifi network with 3 APs, that resulted in the installation of a controller, which is leading to a machine upgrade for that machine shortly.

So service availability lead to considerable additional investment.

In your case so far it's just been a single router, but I'll lay odds that you'll be back for more bits as you start to take advantage of your new service.





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  #797642 11-Apr-2013 10:27
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timmmay: Streaming high def for a significant number of hours per day is the only way I can think to use that sort of bandwidth.


See... you can think of at least one application that could take advantage of the resource.

I have 5 TV devices in my home right now which we normally have 3 running at any time.

100mbit means that we are making more and more use of our technology.

150Gb means we now allow our son to use YouTube without fear that we'll suffer bill shock. 

The education benefit of that is huge.






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  #797643 11-Apr-2013 10:27
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DonGould: Steve, John, Neil, thank you for highlighting my point.
[snip]


And as usual Don, you're picking and choosing the points to respond to, ignoring many facts and suggesting we're some sort of special case that fits with your grandiose view of what Internet in NZ should be. Your points are frequently out of step with reality, economics and good networking practice.

You seem to forget that several of the people on here, and several responding in this thread actually know what customer usage looks like in NZ across large customer bases. You can also be assured that we absolutely want to provide the best possible plans that satisfy consumers and our shareholders.

Somone pointing out that monthly average use is in the 30-50GB range in a large market with unlimited plans and access to many more streaming services than we have here is utterly relevant. To dismiss it as you do is disingenuous.

Regards
N





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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  #797653 11-Apr-2013 10:41
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Talkiet:
Somone pointing out that monthly average use is in the 30-50GB range in a large market with unlimited plans and access to many more streaming services than we have here is utterly relevant. To dismiss it as you do is disingenuous.


The economics of the US internet are not relevant here and won't be for some time to come for so many different reasons that it's just not worth even trying to explain in much detail.

A key consideration should be the billions and billions of investment that was made around 2000 that was just written off when WorldCom (iirc) went bust.

There is also the issue of the state of DSL and HFC in the US which is more of a limiting factor to data delivery than ours now aiui.

Even comparing to Australia, which has a very slow DSL network in many places and a poor HFC D/U stream split is questionable.

In my view we need to stop comparing our selves with the world, become world leaders and focus on what we need as a community.

My opening point here was simply a big 'yeah' that Warp plans are doing more and more to drive our retail CPE market.

As for my ignoring others points, it seems to me that others just latch on to points that suit their agenda.  I'm not suggesting for a second that I don't have an agenda too, of course I do, but don't sound so shocked that I pick and choose points that interest me rather than the agenda and views of others.

With respect to my grandiose view of how the New Zealand Internet should be, I love this technology, of course I present a grand view of what I'd like to see.  It's called dreaming and what put man on the moon.








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  #797673 11-Apr-2013 11:08
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DonGould: I have 5 TV devices in my home right now which we normally have 3 running at any time.


don, I have the impression your three TVs are simply on because they can. I wonder if you leave all the lights in your house on just because you can, and how much is your electricity bill at the end of the month.

Get the point? Just because a resource is there you don't have to use it. It has a cost to it.

I have the impressions that your approach to IT is "let's use all resources possibly available" instead of "what do I need to use?"

DonGould: The education benefit of that is huge.


To me it sounds like parroting someone in the government trying to justify UFB. The last two years I saw presentations from all infrastructure provders and all of them had "Education" and "Health". Health was a good example, with streaming of HD surgery over fibre.

This reminds me of those videos from the early 2000 from mobile network infrastructure manufacturers showing the day in the life of someone with 3G. Lots of dreams but really not even ten years later they are possible yet. 






 

 

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  #797752 11-Apr-2013 13:18
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sbiddle:
DonGould:
...and this folks is why I spend my days pushing telcos to speed infrastructure up!  The follow on effect is that people like this guy then go out and buy a new 'something'. 

It's why we need to continue to push for bigger and bigger data caps in the 1 and 2Tb space.

It drives the rest of the industry in my view.




I couldn't disagree more.

Most people seem to think of the USA as the home of cheap flat rate internet, with most people being on "unlimited" plans (many of which now have ~250GB caps).

Despite this average usage in the US is only around 33.4GB per user for 2015 based on Cisco's VNI and forecast to hit 47GB by 2015.





I would counter argue that if people know they are being prevented from making full or innovative use of a technology they will find an alternative technology to work with. People will watch a TV rather than view video on IP, they will use a phone rather than Skype etc.

The trick is to innovate using enabling technologies, apart from attracting customers, it allows a smaller percentage to develop new ways of using that technology which as it becomes more popular generates more demand for the service.




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  #797870 11-Apr-2013 16:30
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Firstly, I voted your post because I think you make some very pointed observations MF.

freitasm:
DonGould: I have 5 TV devices in my home right now which we normally have 3 running at any time.


don, I have the impression your three TVs are simply on because they can. I wonder if you leave all the lights in your house on just because you can, and how much is your electricity bill at the end of the month.

Get the point? Just because a resource is there you don't have to use it. It has a cost to it.

I have the impressions that your approach to IT is "let's use all resources possibly available" instead of "what do I need to use?"


Yes I do get the point, however in our case you're suggestion is not right.

We have 3 TVs going because we all enjoy very different content and generally don't agree on much of interest in common.

We don't leave lights on and in fact folk use the light from the TV as ambient light unless there is a reason to have lights on.

You are right that I do want to have every ounce out of technology that we can squeeze and I want to be constantly pushing in new technology as it becomes available.

I am interested in technology advancement. 


freitasm:
DonGould: The education benefit of that is huge.


To me it sounds like parroting someone in the government trying to justify UFB. The last two years I saw presentations from all infrastructure provders and all of them had "Education" and "Health". Health was a good example, with streaming of HD surgery over fibre.

This reminds me of those videos from the early 2000 from mobile network infrastructure manufacturers showing the day in the life of someone with 3G. Lots of dreams but really not even ten years later they are possible yet. 



I totally agree with you!!!  What I said really does read like an advert for some corny business case.

However, YouTube really does provide Ben with significant educational benefit. 

He loves lego and uses Youtube extensively to learn as much as he can about lego. 

Interestingly he's mastered quite a lot of the advertising rhetoric.

The content also impacts his story telling quite significantly.

D






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  #797900 11-Apr-2013 17:12
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TwoSeven:
I would counter argue that if people know they are being prevented from making full or innovative use of a technology they will find an alternative technology to work with. People will watch a TV rather than view video on IP, they will use a phone rather than Skype etc.

The trick is to innovate using enabling technologies, apart from attracting customers, it allows a smaller percentage to develop new ways of using that technology which as it becomes more popular generates more demand for the service.


I fully agree with you.

My interest is in driving forward with technology.  We need to disconnect the fax as we did with the telex.

We need to disconnect broadcast TV as we did with news in cinemas. 




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  #797920 11-Apr-2013 17:41
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DonGould:
TwoSeven:
I would counter argue that if people know they are being prevented from making full or innovative use of a technology they will find an alternative technology to work with. People will watch a TV rather than view video on IP, they will use a phone rather than Skype etc.

The trick is to innovate using enabling technologies, apart from attracting customers, it allows a smaller percentage to develop new ways of using that technology which as it becomes more popular generates more demand for the service.


I fully agree with you.

My interest is in driving forward with technology.  We need to disconnect the fax as we did with the telex.

We need to disconnect broadcast TV as we did with news in cinemas. 


The problem is that you want this but have no clue as to the realities of delivering these changes (which aren't in fact needed yet BTW).

The early adopters here in NZ already have access to flat rate ADSL, Fibre plans with 1TB (I think) and I'm sure someone shortly will do flat rate as well...

Explain, with references to reality, why any sane investor would roll out the level of service you advocate widely when no-one is prepared to pay for it.

Cheers - N





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  #797923 11-Apr-2013 17:59
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Talkiet: Explain, with references to reality, why any sane investor would roll out the level of service you advocate widely when no-one is prepared to pay for it.


Please stop being silly Neil.

This line of conversation started when I put in a big ups for 100mbit WARP as a driver for consumers to spend more on CPE and you've turned it into a discussion about silly and unrealistic expectations.

By my observation, consumers are normally willing to pay for service when it's priced at a point that's not price gorging and factored to deliver shareholders massive returns.

Many telcos have learnt this over the years and we've observed the market adopt more and more services and pay more for services as the price point becomes realistic.

As for telling me that I have no ideas about the market dynamics, I really think you have little idea what I do or don't have any real clue about.

This is getting right off topic now so I think we should just leave it there or start a new thread if you want to debate market dynamics.

Again, all I was really offering was a big UPS to VF for dropping Warp pricing to a point where it attracts more users.

D





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