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189 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1024414 13-Apr-2014 15:52
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Demeter:
drajk: Its quite cute to see various VF employees trying to defend the new fees.

FACTS are:
(1) If the fee is cost recovery then it should apply to all credit card payments not only one-off
(2) If the concern is that non-automated credit card payers are unreliable this is addressed by the late payment fee - how would these customers be less reliable with respect to on-time payment compared to a person who pays by going to the post office. If they become sick etc surely they are far more likely to not pay on time vs someone who pays via internet. Irrespective of this a $10 late payment fee is 2% of $500 and so at $10 the late payment fee is more than 2% of most current consumer accounts and certainly should be a large enough disincentive that will avoid late payment.

In my opinion this is just another way for the company to charge more but at the same time seem competitive with respect to 'product' pricing.

It is also probably an advantage to have customers pay by direct debit as incorrect charges are then less likley to be noticed or questioned. In fact price increases will also perhaps be less obvious.

Of course it is probably only a matter of time before they also add a surcharge for automated card payments with the justification that "it is important that we treat all customers fairly"



We're not so much defending it as we are explaining why it exists. We are Vodafone customers ourselves, subject to the same rules and fees. As another example, my electricity provider has a built-in late payment fee they choose to 'discount' if I pay before the due date. It's silly pretending a 'discount' is anything other than a late payment fee, avoided.

We have options to avoid the fee as pointed out many times already. I'm sorry that people feel they're being duped, but at this point I can't help feel that people who are paying the convenience fee are in fact simply choosing to do so.


The reality is customers are paying more despite having never been late with a payment and despite not receiving more product/service for a higher amount (unless they choose to give VF direct debit access with the potential problems already  outlined).

Perhaps it is you who have been duped if you think that the charge is justifiable with the logic outlined - it simply is not and the explanations given don't stack up. Yes there are choices but obviously loyal customers of many years standing are unhappy ... does that matter?

709 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Vodafone NZ

  # 1024422 13-Apr-2014 16:25
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drajk: The reality is customers are paying more despite having never been late with a payment and despite not receiving more product/service for a higher amount (unless they choose to give VF direct debit access with the potential problems already  outlined).

Perhaps it is you who have been duped if you think that the charge is justifiable with the logic outlined - it simply is not and the explanations given don't stack up. Yes there are choices but obviously loyal customers of many years standing are unhappy ... does that matter?


Personally I think it's perfectly justifiable, as a consequence have changed my payment method accordingly and went about my day without giving it another thought. Of course customer loyalty is always in question, isn't it. With this change Vodafone is asking for a small commitment, a show of loyalty if you will, by entering into a regular payment agreement and offering alternatives if this is not an option. To me that sounds perfectly reasonable? I think what I'm having trouble with is understanding why there is so much bad blood when asking people to make a small change to the way they do things.




 
 
 
 


706 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 1024425 13-Apr-2014 16:55
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Demeter:
drajk: The reality is customers are paying more despite having never been late with a payment and despite not receiving more product/service for a higher amount (unless they choose to give VF direct debit access with the potential problems already  outlined).

Perhaps it is you who have been duped if you think that the charge is justifiable with the logic outlined - it simply is not and the explanations given don't stack up. Yes there are choices but obviously loyal customers of many years standing are unhappy ... does that matter?


Personally I think it's perfectly justifiable, as a consequence have changed my payment method accordingly and went about my day without giving it another thought. Of course customer loyalty is always in question, isn't it. With this change Vodafone is asking for a small commitment, a show of loyalty if you will, by entering into a regular payment agreement and offering alternatives if this is not an option. To me that sounds perfectly reasonable? I think what I'm having trouble with is understanding why there is so much bad blood when asking people to make a small change to the way they do things.


Commitment?? So a 24 month contract at $150 a month is not enough to prove loyalty?




Sid

189 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1024426 13-Apr-2014 16:57
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Demeter:
drajk: The reality is customers are paying more despite having never been late with a payment and despite not receiving more product/service for a higher amount (unless they choose to give VF direct debit access with the potential problems already  outlined).

Perhaps it is you who have been duped if you think that the charge is justifiable with the logic outlined - it simply is not and the explanations given don't stack up. Yes there are choices but obviously loyal customers of many years standing are unhappy ... does that matter?


Personally I think it's perfectly justifiable, as a consequence have changed my payment method accordingly and went about my day without giving it another thought. Of course customer loyalty is always in question, isn't it. With this change Vodafone is asking for a small commitment, a show of loyalty if you will, by entering into a regular payment agreement and offering alternatives if this is not an option. To me that sounds perfectly reasonable? I think what I'm having trouble with is understanding why there is so much bad blood when asking people to make a small change to the way they do things.


Perhaps you are happy to let strangers have access to your wallet/bank account/credit card, perhaps you leave your door open and let strangers enter your house - some of us don't.

There are many of us who do not like giving variable direct debit authorities, many of us who have suffered billing errors, many of us who are busy and may not notice billing problems or price increases if we do not consciously need to pay a bill. One may also not consciously compare what one is charged compared with other deals one has recently seen advertised.

If the reasons given as explanation were logical and not inconsistent I imagine many of us would not be so unhappy - i.e. if it was, as stated, truly recovery of costs by vodafone it would have been applied to all credit card payments. Payments at NZPost would also have been surcharged as they also cost Vodafone processing costs. The fact this is not understood after so many posts making these points is quite tedious. The only motivation here that would make any sense is that the company wants automated payments so that customers don't scrutinise what they are paying each month.

709 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Vodafone NZ

  # 1024434 13-Apr-2014 17:14
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sidders80: Commitment?? So a 24 month contract at $150 a month is not enough to prove loyalty?


Being obligated to pay for something and actually committing to do so are vastly different things.

drajk: Perhaps you are happy to let strangers have access to your wallet/bank account/credit card, perhaps you leave your door open and let strangers enter your house - some of us don't.


I'm not sure what gave you the impression I let anybody have access to these things?

drajk: There are many of us who do not like giving variable direct debit authorities, many of us who have suffered billing errors, many of us who are busy and may not notice billing problems or price increases if we do not consciously need to pay a bill. One may also not consciously compare what one is charged compared with other deals one has recently seen advertised.


Internet banking is the answer to all these objections. However,  I take your point and apologise if I've given the impression that I'm just being contrary or unsympathetic to your argument, that wasn't the intention. The feedback in this thread will be passed along.






706 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 1024438 13-Apr-2014 17:29
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Demeter:
sidders80: Commitment?? So a 24 month contract at $150 a month is not enough to prove loyalty?


Being obligated to pay for something and actually committing to do so are vastly different things.





so basically what you are saying is that people signing long term contracts are not committed enough? Obligation on their part only cones when they commit to a contract. Secondly anyone who pays before or by the due date is committed to pay regardless of the way he pays. You can't doubt their commitment if they don't pay through one of your preferred ways even if it means paying a weekly amount at the post office which by the way costs Vodafone a lot more than this convenience fee. 

Now coming to Direct debit and AP which you say show commitment, what is the guarantee that they will always go through? They could be dishonoured so the commitment won't mean much after all. 




Sid

706 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 1024442 13-Apr-2014 17:36
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Demeter:
sidders80: Commitment?? So a 24 month contract at $150 a month is not enough to prove loyalty?


Being obligated to pay for something and actually committing to do so are vastly different things.

drajk: Perhaps you are happy to let strangers have access to your wallet/bank account/credit card, perhaps you leave your door open and let strangers enter your house - some of us don't.


I'm not sure what gave you the impression I let anybody have access to these things?

drajk: There are many of us who do not like giving variable direct debit authorities, many of us who have suffered billing errors, many of us who are busy and may not notice billing problems or price increases if we do not consciously need to pay a bill. One may also not consciously compare what one is charged compared with other deals one has recently seen advertised.


Internet banking is the answer to all these objections. 




If Internet banking is the answer I am struggling to see Vodafone account details to set you guys up as a Bill payee or how to pay via internet banking on my current bill. You talk about other companies what they do - the answer is my electricity company has those details on the invoice so I don't have to go looking on their website. If you want customers to pay in a certain way how about try and make it easy for them to use that option?





Sid

 
 
 
 


19282 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 1024473 13-Apr-2014 18:54
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sidders80:
Demeter:
sidders80: Commitment?? So a 24 month contract at $150 a month is not enough to prove loyalty?


Being obligated to pay for something and actually committing to do so are vastly different things.

drajk: Perhaps you are happy to let strangers have access to your wallet/bank account/credit card, perhaps you leave your door open and let strangers enter your house - some of us don't.


I'm not sure what gave you the impression I let anybody have access to these things?

drajk: There are many of us who do not like giving variable direct debit authorities, many of us who have suffered billing errors, many of us who are busy and may not notice billing problems or price increases if we do not consciously need to pay a bill. One may also not consciously compare what one is charged compared with other deals one has recently seen advertised.


Internet banking is the answer to all these objections. 




If Internet banking is the answer I am struggling to see Vodafone account details to set you guys up as a Bill payee or how to pay via internet banking on my current bill. You talk about other companies what they do - the answer is my electricity company has those details on the invoice so I don't have to go looking on their website. If you want customers to pay in a certain way how about try and make it easy for them to use that option?



When you set up a Bill payment all major trading banks have Vodafone details, Just select between fixed line and mobile when setting up the payee, You should not need to go looking for a Bank account number,

Edit: Never looked up Vodafone banking details before and found this page in under 15 seconds

Searched " Bank details "

http://help.vodafone.co.nz/app/answers/detail/a_id/17702

and

http://www.vodafone.co.nz/help/bill-payment/pay-mobile/

22431 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 1024497 13-Apr-2014 19:38
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Just be aware that if you have had a previous bill payment to telstra clear in your internet banking it will have been renamed to vodafone so if you revert to using internet banking to pay you may end up putting lots of small payments thru to them with an incorrect reference number on it. Oops.




Richard rich.ms

706 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 1024498 13-Apr-2014 19:41
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johnr:
sidders80:
Demeter:
sidders80: Commitment?? So a 24 month contract at $150 a month is not enough to prove loyalty?


Being obligated to pay for something and actually committing to do so are vastly different things.

drajk: Perhaps you are happy to let strangers have access to your wallet/bank account/credit card, perhaps you leave your door open and let strangers enter your house - some of us don't.


I'm not sure what gave you the impression I let anybody have access to these things?

drajk: There are many of us who do not like giving variable direct debit authorities, many of us who have suffered billing errors, many of us who are busy and may not notice billing problems or price increases if we do not consciously need to pay a bill. One may also not consciously compare what one is charged compared with other deals one has recently seen advertised.


Internet banking is the answer to all these objections. 




If Internet banking is the answer I am struggling to see Vodafone account details to set you guys up as a Bill payee or how to pay via internet banking on my current bill. You talk about other companies what they do - the answer is my electricity company has those details on the invoice so I don't have to go looking on their website. If you want customers to pay in a certain way how about try and make it easy for them to use that option?



When you set up a Bill payment all major trading banks have Vodafone details, Just select between fixed line and mobile when setting up the payee, You should not need to go looking for a Bank account number,

Edit: Never looked up Vodafone banking details before and found this page in under 15 seconds

Searched " Bank details "

http://help.vodafone.co.nz/app/answers/detail/a_id/17702

and

http://www.vodafone.co.nz/help/bill-payment/pay-mobile/


Thats great John well done but it was a feedback for Vodafone to have it on the statement too like other companies as a lot of times Vodafone people in this forum have talked about what other companies do. Thanks for your help though.




Sid

22431 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 1024501 13-Apr-2014 19:46
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The problem with putting it on the statement is it allows people to put a payment thru without a correct or with poorly formed references. When you set a payment up with the banks they let you force certain things to be in a certain field when the bill payee is added, minimizing the bad experiences of customers who cannot follow instructions.

It also allows you to load different account numbers with different banks to get a speedier settlement into your account which can help with customers who are putting payments thru to get services reactivated after defaulting.




Richard rich.ms

706 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 1024507 13-Apr-2014 19:52
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richms: The problem with putting it on the statement is it allows people to put a payment thru without a correct or with poorly formed references. When you set a payment up with the banks they let you force certain things to be in a certain field when the bill payee is added, minimizing the bad experiences of customers who cannot follow instructions.

It also allows you to load different account numbers with different banks to get a speedier settlement into your account which can help with customers who are putting payments thru to get services reactivated after defaulting.


Not saying mention the whole account details etc but just a mention that Vodafone is set up as a bill payee with all major banks should help a lot of people. If you look at the invoice it suggests to pay by cheque. Just my opinion.




Sid

116 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1024543 13-Apr-2014 21:06
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drajk: Its quite cute to see various VF employees trying to defend the new fees.

Just doing my bit to help and provide info where needed, haven't said that I personally disagree/agree with 2% charge.

sidders80: Not saying mention the whole account details etc but just a mention that Vodafone is set up as a bill payee with all major banks should help a lot of people. If you look at the invoice it suggests to pay by cheque. Just my opinion.

Hey sidders80, Vodafone already do try to provide payment options information where you might find your invoice. For eg:


When [EDIT->correction: "mobile"] bills get sent out by snail mail you have a A4 side like this:

On the last page
Vodafone payment method on invoice by post.


When you have [EDIT->correction: "mobile"] bills emailed, the notification email looks like this:
With invoice attached as PDF
Vodafone new invoice email notification


Online (desktop) in My Vodafone [EDIT->correction: "mobile"] account like this:
My Vodafone payment options








geek turned SEO charlatan ¯\_(~_~)_/¯


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  # 1024544 13-Apr-2014 21:09
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I think this thread must have run it's course twice over. All parties have expressed their opinions. Is anything more to be gained by it's continuance?


706 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 1024545 13-Apr-2014 21:11
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KieranReid:
drajk: Its quite cute to see various VF employees trying to defend the new fees.

Just doing my bit to help and provide correct info where it's needed, haven't said that I personally agree/disagree with 2% charge.

sidders80: Not saying mention the whole account details etc but just a mention that Vodafone is set up as a bill payee with all major banks should help a lot of people. If you look at the invoice it suggests to pay by cheque. Just my opinion.

Hey sidders80, Vodafone already do try to provide payment options information where you might find your invoice. For eg:


When bills get sent out by snail mail you have a A4 side like this:

On the last page
Vodafone payment method on invoice by post.


When you have bills emailed, the notification email looks like this:
With invoice attached as PDF
Vodafone new invoice email notification


Online (desktop) in My Vodafone account like this:
My Vodafone payment options






I am happy to send you the bills that I get online. If the one that gets posted out is different than its not my fault. I am happy to PM you a copy of my bill if you want to see it.




Sid

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