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  # 1014911 28-Mar-2014 22:51
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NonprayingMantis:

What about if he added 4G when it was a $10 charge, then when Vf announced it was free on all current plans in response to telecom, he thought 'sweet, free on my plan'. Then later found he was getting billed the $10 even though the advertising suggested it should be free.


No as they had an agreement for $10 a month. I dont expect my cap to go up just because all the new plans have a higher cap etc. Dont expect any change to the plan unless it is advised etc. Like that BS 2% thing I have not actually been advised about from the other thread which is why I am making many many small internet banking payments instead.




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  # 1014917 28-Mar-2014 23:17
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surfisup1000:
johnr: kezzanz Quote from your first post

Vodafone today announces free 4G on all current On Account and SIM only plans , Plans and customers are very different things


My goodness, no they are not. 

If a customer is on a plan then that plan is current. In my book.

This sounds like something that VF public relations should be handling because it could well end up before the courts if someone complains to the comcom . 


There are enough people in NZ (including the Commerce Commission who) who really have it in for VF, especially in light of the recent court cases for misleading advertising.

If this really was an issue, buy now we would have had people jumping up and down to the media and the Com Com warning VF. The fact they haven't kinda points to the fact this really is a non issue.

 
 
 
 




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  # 1014930 29-Mar-2014 00:38
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richms:
NonprayingMantis:

What about if he added 4G when it was a $10 charge, then when Vf announced it was free on all current plans in response to telecom, he thought 'sweet, free on my plan'. Then later found he was getting billed the $10 even though the advertising suggested it should be free.


No as they had an agreement for $10 a month. I dont expect my cap to go up just because all the new plans have a higher cap etc. Dont expect any change to the plan unless it is advised etc. Like that BS 2% thing I have not actually been advised about from the other thread which is why I am making many many small internet banking payments instead.


Well thats the thing mate, I added when it was $10, knowing I would pay $10 because VF had brought it first to market and I was willing to pay a premium for it. I assumed when Telecom brought it would it out the competition would drive down prices. Which is exactly what happened. However VF's language was midleading and had i known I was paying $10 when people on a $19 pre paid plan were getting it for free I would have canned it. 

Anyway, I raised this with VF in writing (instead of over the phone). On the phone they all said no, I was wrong and I had reached the highest escalation point. Subsequently I raised my point via email and advised them that i had received legal advice regarding the FTA and then all of a sudden there was a change of tune. I received a call today advising me that all my 4G charges would be credited back ($120) and I would now receive 4G for free. They also agreed that my interpretation was valid, however they would not tell me what would happen for other consumers impacted by this. Following this I have been in contact with the comcom because this isnt something every consumer should have to fight to have made right. 

 

I will keep yall appraised with the comcom discussions. 

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  # 1014936 29-Mar-2014 07:11
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^ networkn & Beccara

Both of them should have received the refund too!

I think the fact that they refunded you and gave 4G for free means they accepted their mistake ;-)





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  # 1014947 29-Mar-2014 09:26
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Subsequently I raised my point via email and advised them that i had received legal advice regarding the FTA and then all of a sudden there was a change of tune. I received a call today advising me that all my 4G charges would be credited back ($120) and I would now receive 4G for free. They also agreed that my interpretation was valid


And that is the sound of poo hitting the proverbial fan!!

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  # 1014981 29-Mar-2014 11:11
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dejadeadnz:
itxtme:
TimA:
kezzanz: Yea evidentally I do.

But that isn't my point. My point is the language is highly ambiguous from the perspective of the average consumer.


I presented that quote to 2 other people non associated with Vodafone and they clearly understood that it meant plans currently offered. My Blonde sister and her friend. Now thats saying something.


I disagree that it is clear as mud. I certainly think you could do a better job of explaining who doesnt get it.

The OP is currently offered his plan, every month in fact. So to say the language is clear and obvious is false. Do I think Vodafone was attempting to mislead the public... No, OP will have to change his plan!


As someone who actually works in legal compliance (in another industry - so I have no stake in this), I agree with you. I don't think it's absolutely clear that VF is being misleading but the idea that their statement is unambiguously clear is laughable. From a pure risk management point of view, a simple asterisk next to "current plans" and a phrase "excluding plans that VF no longer actively offer on sale" would have made things far better. You'd think VF would learn a thing or two from its own piss poor record of Fair Trading Act compliance. And for those who might contend that the included chart/table of current plans serve as a qualifier to illustrate what VF means, I'd argue that people might take the table as merely being illustrative of what is available.


+1

Yes, I remember when VF first announced free 4G some people on Geekzone was confused, and if we assume the people here are more tech literate than the average consumer, then I don't think it was "unambiguously clear".

The ambiguity here is being there are some grandfathered plans (but current active contracts) with 4G at a premium. If all grandfathered plans didn't have 4G enabled then maybe it wouldn't have been such an issue.

I agree from a pure risk management perspective they should have added that asterisk to explain "current plans". From a customer experience perspective, they should have made 4G free for all 4G enabled plans, simplifying the product/comms, and providing a more rewarding customer experience for the customers in this segment.

I do understand the revenue vs cost may not have weighed up, but I also think VF lost an opportunity to create potential VF advocates from this segment of customers - some like the OP who are likely to be early adopters and opted to pay a premium for new technology.

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  # 1014993 29-Mar-2014 11:26
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nakedmolerat: ^ networkn & Beccara

Both of them should have received the refund too!

I think the fact that they refunded you and gave 4G for free means they accepted their mistake ;-)


My account manager will handle it, but to be fair I suspect they will credit me rather than argue, so that doesn't by default prove my interpretation was correct. 

The overarching issue I have and the reason I asked for a refund, is when I called to say "vf are giving 4G free to everyone, the CSR didn't argue or even dispute it, she said, ok, I'll add it to your account. 

Had she of corrected me, I would simply have accepted her version, told her I felt the wording could cause issues and opted to not pay the $10 extra.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1015172 29-Mar-2014 20:40
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sbiddle:
surfisup1000:
johnr: kezzanz Quote from your first post

Vodafone today announces free 4G on all current On Account and SIM only plans , Plans and customers are very different things


My goodness, no they are not. 

If a customer is on a plan then that plan is current. In my book.

This sounds like something that VF public relations should be handling because it could well end up before the courts if someone complains to the comcom . 


There are enough people in NZ (including the Commerce Commission who) who really have it in for VF, especially in light of the recent court cases for misleading advertising.

If this really was an issue, buy now we would have had people jumping up and down to the media and the Com Com warning VF. The fact they haven't kinda points to the fact this really is a non issue.




I don't think you actually understand that these issues aren't investigated/developed in a day or two (this is coming someone with actual experience dealing with them on behalf of corporate clients). I would be very surprised if VF isn't issued, at a minimum, a warning by the ComCom.



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  # 1015204 29-Mar-2014 21:52
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sbiddle:
surfisup1000:
johnr: kezzanz Quote from your first post

Vodafone today announces free 4G on all current On Account and SIM only plans , Plans and customers are very different things


My goodness, no they are not. 

If a customer is on a plan then that plan is current. In my book.

This sounds like something that VF public relations should be handling because it could well end up before the courts if someone complains to the comcom . 


There are enough people in NZ (including the Commerce Commission who) who really have it in for VF, especially in light of the recent court cases for misleading advertising.

If this really was an issue, buy now we would have had people jumping up and down to the media and the Com Com warning VF. The fact they haven't kinda points to the fact this really is a non issue.


Maybe if Vodafone did marketing that wasn't so misleading, confusing, vague, and full of spin all the time, they wouldn't be taken to court so often. (I still have no idea wtf the supernet is supposed to be)

And it takes time for this sort of thing to develop. Take the recent fine for the casual data pricing. That happened years ago but has taken this long to get a result.

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  # 1015212 29-Mar-2014 22:06
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I don't think their wording was intending to mislead, however it looks like they have used specific wording which only internal Vodafone staff would understand as meaning one thing only.

When I saw the announcement a few weeks back I also thought it meant everyone on account.



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  # 1015214 29-Mar-2014 22:07
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NonprayingMantis:
sbiddle:
surfisup1000:
johnr: kezzanz Quote from your first post

Vodafone today announces free 4G on all current On Account and SIM only plans , Plans and customers are very different things


My goodness, no they are not. 

If a customer is on a plan then that plan is current. In my book.

This sounds like something that VF public relations should be handling because it could well end up before the courts if someone complains to the comcom . 


There are enough people in NZ (including the Commerce Commission who) who really have it in for VF, especially in light of the recent court cases for misleading advertising.

If this really was an issue, buy now we would have had people jumping up and down to the media and the Com Com warning VF. The fact they haven't kinda points to the fact this really is a non issue.


Maybe if Vodafone did marketing that wasn't so misleading, confusing, vague, and full of spin all the time, they wouldn't be taken to court so often. (I still have no idea wtf the supernet is supposed to be)

And it takes time for this sort of thing to develop. Take the recent fine for the casual data pricing. That happened years ago but has taken this long to get a result.


I'm pretty sure the Supernet is just a marketing term for all-in-one services from Vodafone i.e TV, broadband, homeline etc, all in one package. Well at least that's how I interpret it...






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  # 1015255 30-Mar-2014 00:37
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dejadeadnz:
I don't think you actually understand that these issues aren't investigated/developed in a day or two (this is coming someone with actual experience dealing with them on behalf of corporate clients). I would be very surprised if VF isn't issued, at a minimum, a warning by the ComCom.




My understanding is that after their fines in 2012 and 2013 that all plans and media content related to plans is reviewed by the Commerce Commission before it's released. If this infact the case, then clearly there isn't anything here for them to actually consider.



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  # 1015416 30-Mar-2014 15:36
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sbiddle:
dejadeadnz:
I don't think you actually understand that these issues aren't investigated/developed in a day or two (this is coming someone with actual experience dealing with them on behalf of corporate clients). I would be very surprised if VF isn't issued, at a minimum, a warning by the ComCom.




My understanding is that after their fines in 2012 and 2013 that all plans and media content related to plans is reviewed by the Commerce Commission before it's released. If this infact the case, then clearly there isn't anything here for them to actually consider.




No doubt we will find out.

Of course, they may alter their view of what they assessed as acceptable if they get enough people telling them it confused them, I suppose.





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  # 1015666 30-Mar-2014 20:44
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sbiddle:
dejadeadnz:
I don't think you actually understand that these issues aren't investigated/developed in a day or two (this is coming someone with actual experience dealing with them on behalf of corporate clients). I would be very surprised if VF isn't issued, at a minimum, a warning by the ComCom.




My understanding is that after their fines in 2012 and 2013 that all plans and media content related to plans is reviewed by the Commerce Commission before it's released. If this infact the case, then clearly there isn't anything here for them to actually consider.




There is absolutely no way that the ComCom will provide that kind of service, as only the courts can have the final say on whether something contravenes the FTA. And absolutely nothing in the historical conduct of the ComCom suggests they would partake in such an activity.





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