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  Reply # 1034889 1-May-2014 15:20
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networkn:
NonprayingMantis: Soooooo unlimited Naked VDSL for $79. Interesting.

Cheapest unlimited VDSL in the market by at least $10.  

so doing a bit of math, that is fixed ARPU of $68 when you remove GST, with no possibility to earn landline calling revenues on top (cos it's naked).

Given you pay Chorus ~$50 per month for VDSL, that leaves about $19 to spend on everything else.  (you aren't using your own LLU I believe for VDSL)

So after all your other 'stuff' (modem, support staff, sales commission, product management, marketing, profit etc) how much of that $19 are you allocating to international bandwidth? $2?  $3?








Why do you care how much money they make? They have decided as a company it's "enough" and believe they can bear the extra load on the network. They aren't going to risk potentially losing thousands of customers by deliberately overselling the infrastructure, and if they get it wrong, they probably have deep enough pockets they will "make it right".


I don't care how much money they make.

I do care that they allocate enough of their budget to bandwidth to provide the customer a good enough experience.  Based on that pricing, it doesn't seem possible to do this.  

We know, for example, that Orcon and Slingshot are hardly making out like bandits on profit,  yet their VDSL unlimited pricing is 30% higher than this. (Orcon is $109, Slingshot is $109/$119, even Telecom's naked VDSL is $99 for unlimited). So I don't see how Vodafone can do it at $79, and still have enough money to provide enough bandwidth for a good unlimited experience.

This launch seems an obviously rushed response to Telecom selling unlimited (no big marketing campaign, website doesn't work quite right, automatic 'migration' of customers is faster than building new plans) so it's possible (maybe even likely) that they haven't actually thought through the impact properly and I am concerned that we are going to end up with lots of people stuck on contracts having a crummy experience, and unable to get out of it, because they agreed to 'traffic management'. 

The reason I am concerned it that if we see Telecom or the other guys panicking and responding to this by doing the same sort of thing, then we are going to end up with NZ being a country that has awesome last mile infrastructure, BUT, ISPs will only be able to afford to spend teeny dribs and drabs on international so any traffic from overseas is going to suck. Furthermore, the amount they can allocate to customer service will also drop, meaning longer wait times and just poorer service generally etc.

Telecom might be able to get away with repsonding to this, but no way could Orcon or Slingshot drop their naked unlimited pricing for VDSL down as far as that.   Wouldn't be surprised if they complained to the comcom about anti-competitive behaviour. (don't now if they would have a case, but they might give it a try)

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  Reply # 1034893 1-May-2014 15:27
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I guess they are using it as a loss leader.... To get the cheaper plan you have to have on account mobile. I guess they figure they pick up business from other "stuff" you may buy from them.




My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

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  Reply # 1034895 1-May-2014 15:31
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hairy1: I guess they are using it as a loss leader.... To get the cheaper plan you have to have on account mobile. I guess they figure they pick up business from other "stuff" you may buy from them.


This. There is no money in it at this pricing and in similar fashion to Trustpower, they are using fixed line broadband as a retention tool of sorts.

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  Reply # 1034897 1-May-2014 15:33
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russelo: I used to always maximized my cap before it resets so I can say that I got my money's worth.
... There's no point downloading gigabytes of useless data where there's no limit to break.

A Profound Truth.
Some people will go crazy downloading as much as their connection will bear - at least until the novelty wears off.
Others like russelo and me will no longer use up our data cap just to "get my money's worth".
The two trends will cancel each other out, and total usage will probably be unchanged - after a short-term surge.





Sideface


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  Reply # 1034900 1-May-2014 15:37
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NonprayingMantis: Soooooo unlimited Naked VDSL for $79. Interesting.

Cheapest unlimited VDSL in the market by at least $10.  

so doing a bit of math, that is fixed ARPU of $68 when you remove GST, with no possibility to earn landline calling revenues on top (cos it's naked).

Given you pay Chorus ~$50 per month for VDSL, that leaves about $19 to spend on everything else.  (you aren't using your own LLU I believe for VDSL)

So after all your other 'stuff' (modem, support staff, sales commission, product management, marketing, profit etc) how much of that $19 are you allocating to international bandwidth? $2?  $3?




ARPU is calculated as total average revenue for the organisation divided by total number of subscribers over a fixed period. It can be lower overall than an individual provisioned service per user.

I suspect the calculation you may be looking for is the cost of providing a service per X number of expected users (say 10k), versus the actual revenue per realised subscriptions (the actual charge and take-up).  I would be surprised if one could get an accurate breakdown for these numbers.





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  Reply # 1034905 1-May-2014 15:42
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hairy1: I guess they are using it as a loss leader.... To get the cheaper plan you have to have on account mobile. I guess they figure they pick up business from other "stuff" you may buy from them.


This is why the entry level plans ($75/40GB etc) are often underwater - they try and upsell you to bigger caps and rely on you making calls on your landline or spending a few bucks extra on data overage.

But here we are talking about the most expensive plan (there is no bigger plan to move you up to) AND no chance of generating extras like toll calling, overage charges etc

the mobile may provide some extra, but then all it means is that they must be making insane profits on mobile to be able to afford to give away an entire broadband plan just to secure a $29 mobile plan.

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  Reply # 1034906 1-May-2014 15:42
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I just rang Vodafone and a rep will ring me back at 7pm to make the switch from Snap VDSL.

A couple of questions I will ask:

 

  • Do I get a static IP address for the unlimited plan (this is a deal breaker for me)
  • Can I re-use my Fritz Box VDSL modem so I don't have to pay another $99 for another modem?
  • Confirm that my Corporate Vodafone mobile entitles me to the $30 discount (Lady did confirm this on the phone however I have not yet given her my business mobile number to check).
So instead of paying Snap $112 per month for 350GB of VDSL, I will be paying $79, plus if I switch my Sky account I can save another $15 as they offer one free MySkyHDi box.

Does anyone know the ping speeds/ bandwidth to Sydney from Wellington on Vodafone? Currently I get 58ms/90% full line speed. I hope the bandwidth is not affected. 

According to Truenet, Snap beats Vodafone to Sydney, however Vodafone then beats Snap to Dallas, USA. Must take a different route to the States.

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  Reply # 1034907 1-May-2014 15:43

jimbob79:

It's Okay now. Just checked my email again and noticed that I had hidden sneaky PDF attachment. The document does confirm that I'm going to be billed the new price for $55 per month. WooHoo. So at no extra change I'm now bumped up to 80GB from 60GB and a speed improvement from 15Mbps to 50Mbps. Only thing is I'm now committed to a 12 month term. Oh-well.

VF Sales staff should really properly notified of new price changes as I'm sure they get complacent last know price plane.


Hey jimbob,

 Just to clarify, you will need a (free) DOCSIS3.0 modem upgrade to jump from 15/2 to 50/2 - did the rep discuss this with you at point of sale? Feel free to flick me a DM if not & I'll get it booked. :)




Product Manager @ PB Tech

https://pbtech.co.nz/smartphones


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  Reply # 1034925 1-May-2014 15:52
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I have for six or seven years been sharing my cable connection (via long range WIFI) with a friend who could otherwise only get very slow DSL or dial-up. I monitor the traffic and we each pay our portion of the bill (technically, usually I pay the bill and he reimburses me, although on occasion it's been the other way around).

This enabled me to be on the larger, cheaper per GB plans. Though even then we were often past the included GB and paying overage, until the recent automatic doubling from 250 to 500 GB in February(?), which we haven't ever come close to maxing out.

This was in the past well within the terms and conditions. I even asked TelstraClear representatives directly if it was ok and was told "You're paying for what you use. We don't care as long as the bills get paid".

They were also absolutely happy with home businesses, taking advantage of the static IP to run servers etc, for exactly the same reasons. If someone hammered you, they wouldn't be out of pocket.

I'm concerned that this will not be the case with unlimited. I would actually rather stay on 500, pay a reasonable price for extra (something between $0.00/GB and $1.00/GB ... $0.25 or so would be cool), be able to use it in any way I wanted.


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  Reply # 1034928 1-May-2014 15:59
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@networkn @NonprayingMantis

Its not to any of our concerns how much profit Vodafone makes. What they do is make it happen. Please all do note the $79 price is including and on account mobile that grants a $30 discount on naked plans and $10 on clothed (Phone and broadband). The cheapest on account mobile plan is $29.

Cheers




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  Reply # 1034930 1-May-2014 16:01
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brucehoult: I'm concerned that this will not be the case with unlimited. I would actually rather stay on 500, pay a reasonable price for extra (something between $0.00/GB and $1.00/GB ... $0.25 or so would be cool), be able to use it in any way I wanted.



Pretty sure it was pointed out earlier in this thread, but if you read the terms for our Unlimited Broadband, I'm sure you'll see you have no cause for concern. ;-)




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  Reply # 1034931 1-May-2014 16:08
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@brucehoult Vodafone is spending $$$ on the cable (HFC) network upgrading old kit to the latest, The work is going on right now

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  Reply # 1034932 1-May-2014 16:10
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I read the terms. It says:

"Non-residential, commercial purposes will include (but is not limited to) selling bandwidth to third parties or running an Internet Service Provider."

I am providing bandwidth to a 3rd party in another residence, and they are giving me money to do so. Is doing so on a cost share rather than for-profit basis sufficient to make me "not an ISP".

If the other dude starts downloading Miley Cyrus MP3s and getting me copyright infringement notices then you can be pretty damn sure I'll be claiming I *AM* an ISP for the purposes of that legislation!


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  Reply # 1034934 1-May-2014 16:11
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@brucehoult you can't claim to be an ISP it would not work

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  Reply # 1034938 1-May-2014 16:23
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brucehoult: I read the terms. It says:

"Non-residential, commercial purposes will include (but is not limited to) selling bandwidth to third parties or running an Internet Service Provider."

I am providing bandwidth to a 3rd party in another residence, and they are giving me money to do so. Is doing so on a cost share rather than for-profit basis sufficient to make me "not an ISP".

If the other dude starts downloading Miley Cyrus MP3s and getting me copyright infringement notices then you can be pretty damn sure I'll be claiming I *AM* an ISP for the purposes of that legislation!



Not that anyone should download Miley Cyrus full stop you would be liable for an infringement as its your service.




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