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8 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 147289 14-Jun-2014 23:40
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Hi.
I have recently gotten VDSL through Vodafone but am having some issues getting my ASUS N66U setup properly.

When we rang up to inquire about VDSL we were told that it would work at our address no problem... I assumed this to be true as we are located about 350-400m away from the cabinet at the end of our street.
When the tech turned up to install the wiring he told me that the cabinet hadn't been upgraded to fiber and we would be connecting directly to the exchange (I assume we are going 'HOME---copper---CABINET---copper---EXCHANGE'.)
Either way, the Exchange is located roughly 800m away. I estimated about 817 meters (using Google maps drawing a line alone the road) and the tech estimated 790ish m.

Anyway, we got the cable installed and hooked up the ASUS N66U but couldn't establish a link. Luckily Vodafone had sent us out a modem (we had told them we didn't need one as we already had the N66U and didn't want to be charged).
So we unpacked the HG659 and got a link. 19450 kbit/s DOWN and 7520 kbit/s UP - Pretty close to what we were getting on ADSL2 (speed test of 18.31 DOWN). 

While the tech was doing this I was quickly looking at the N66Us settings and found where to enable VDSL so I switched that on and the technician swapped over the modem and ran another test (basically called up Chorus and asked for the connection stats).
This time we got about 15000 kbit/s DOWN and about the same UP.

I was told that the chances of getting any more DOWN were slim to none because of how far away we are from the exchange and I was asked if I wanted to go back to ADSL. (I was told that going back would require calling up Vodafone and getting another job lodged).
At this point I said I would leave it for a couple of weeks and see how the DLM (is that correct? Dynamic Line Management?) configured our connection.
The Tech said that was probably best and we could always go back to ADSL at a later date (I assume at no cost as Vodafone says if there is no speed increase the change back would be free).

We put the HG659 back on the line (3rd change) and the tech once again checked it before leaving.
Once he had gone I logged into the HG659, grabbed the settings and copied them to the N66U and then changed the DSL over to the N66U (4th change) however the N66U was still speed testing slower than that HG659.
I looked at the N66U DSL Log and saw that we were getting a line attenuation of 19dB for the down and over 100 for UP (The HG659 didn't give me any attenuation numbers at all).

I then went into the Administration > DSL Settings on the N66U and made a few changes.

First I changed the Stability Adjustment (VDSL) to 5dB and then set Rx AGC GAIN Adjustment to High Performance.

This boosted our connection speed to over 20000 kbit/s DOWN and the speed tests showed 20Mbps DOWN. UP was unaffected.
The line attenuation increased to 20dB however.
We left the setting like that for a day and everything seemed to be running ok although I did notice that if I started uploading the DL speed would drop quite a lot (down to around 4-5Mbps).
Then after about a day our speed dropped right off. I checked the DSL Log and say that the line attenuation was now reading 8dB but we were getting HUGE amounts of CRC Errors. So I changed the DSL settings back to default which dropped out speed right down again... and ever since its been dropping until It got to about 12Mbps.

At this point I plugged the HG659 back in and now the speeds are back up again however we would prefer to use the N66U if we could.
I'm hoping someone could explain to me why the two modems have such a large speed difference and how to set up the N66U to get the speed but keep the connection stable (The line attenuation is constantly changing and has been as low as 4dB but with a connection speed of about 12000 kbit/s).

Thanks.   Edit: Here is the CURRENT stats from the HG659

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  Reply # 1065808 14-Jun-2014 23:40
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



'That VDSL Cat'
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  Reply # 1065836 15-Jun-2014 04:33
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first thing i note here, is your a borderline connection.


the stability your playing with in your asus router, is SNR tweaking. you should run this at the standard 12dB, it WILL cause more errors on your line if you reduce it otherwise, and likely affect your VDSL profile - which could inturn alter your attainable speeds.

you said your line attenuation dropped to 8dB, this would indicate a fault, except given your distance, and the fact that you have been tweaking, ild suspect you have missread, and your SNR was running at 8dB.

different modems will sync differently, clearly the vodafone modem is better for your line, ild stick with that.



careful with messing with your modem, reboots will likely make DLM assume your line is unstable, and it will make adjustments.


to double check, a master filter was installed? you didnt touch on it at all in your post.




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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 
 
 
 




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1065840 15-Jun-2014 06:24
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Oops. Sorry.
Yes, I believe a master filter was installed.

The technition ran cat6 cable under the house to a little white box where all the other phone lines go and that little whit box then runs under the ground.

On the other end of the cat6 cable is an RJ45 (?) connector which I assume is the master filter?

So 12dB is the default SNR? On the Asus router it's default is set to 'disabled' and I was wondering if that's why the speed was lower.

I may try connecting the asus again today and taking a SS of the stats page.

When I change modems I leave the cable unplugged for 10-15 mins before reconnecting it. I read that the DLM won't pick this up as a drop.
Unfortunately changing the settings causes a reboot and I have done that a few times The HG659 is showing a profile of 8b currently (I needed to SSH into the box to find this).

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  Reply # 1065843 15-Jun-2014 06:41
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DarkMain: Oops. Sorry.
Yes, I believe a master filter was installed.

The technition ran cat6 cable under the house to a little white box where all the other phone lines go and that little whit box then runs under the ground.

On the other end of the cat6 cable is an RJ45 (?) connector which I assume is the master filter?

So 12dB is the default SNR? On the Asus router it's default is set to 'disabled' and I was wondering if that's why the speed was lower.

I may try connecting the asus again today and taking a SS of the stats page.

When I change modems I leave the cable unplugged for 10-15 mins before reconnecting it. I read that the DLM won't pick this up as a drop.
Unfortunately changing the settings causes a reboot and I have done that a few times The HG659 is showing a profile of 8b currently (I needed to SSH into the box to find this).


DLM can be temperamental, you can play with it, by trying to fit into time brackets, but it will slap you in the face eventually..


"disabled" will be in the sense of, tweaking (be it for stability or performance) is disabled, you should be using this mode really.. considering your connection is still new, thats even more reason not to play too much!.


you wont get a 17a bandplan at your distance, it will be 8b. i was referring to DLM profiles, which are different to bandplans. 



sounds like your installation was sound, ild say simply quality of the copper in your area isnt very forgiving to VDSL




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1065844 15-Jun-2014 06:53
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The copper was amazing for ADSL and for a really long time (3+ years). It was rock solid. we were getting 2.35-2.5MB download speeds (I can't remember the connection speeds). A few months ago we started dropping off every 15 mins or so and this carried on for about 25 hours so I called Vodafone. The changed our profile and chorus did something to the line and a day later we were back up but we were only connecting at 15000 kbit/s.

I called Vodafone again and they changed our profile back to what it was but we haven't been past 18000kbit/s since.

That was with a net gear modem/router.

In antisipation of VDSL we bought the ASUS and once again when plugging it in we lost speed.
Setting the stability adjustment to 5dB got out speed back up and the connection has been stable for about 3 weeks right up until we switched to VDSL.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1065859 15-Jun-2014 08:34
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Here is the N66U stats after a factory reset for comparison.



One thing that jumps out at me is the POWER Down on the N66U is lower than the HG659. Everything else looks the same.

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  Reply # 1065862 15-Jun-2014 08:43
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102 db upstream? Surly I am reading this wrong.

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  Reply # 1065865 15-Jun-2014 08:46
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Making tweaks will in all likelihood make your connection worse, not better. You're clearly in a marginal area and things aren't going to get better.

You've now got upstream that's roughly 10x faster than before so overall have a much better connection for the same price.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1065866 15-Jun-2014 08:53
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 You've now got upstream that's roughly 10x faster than before so overall have a much better connection for the same price.


Yes, but using the N66U results in a SLOWER DL speed (And the upload its 7.5x times faster... but I get your point).
We were never meant to have received the HG659 but it was sent out anyway. We are just waiting to see if we are charged for it. If they don't charge us then its all good. May as well keep it.
If they do charge us (Whats it worth? $250?) then its going back as we requested NOT to have it and were told it wasn't being sent and we were not going to be charged.

The only reason its even out of the box is because the technician unpacked it and set it up while I was out of the room.

My main goal here is to get the N66U to match the speeds of the HG658 (or even match the speeds we were getting on ADSL). Not to get MORE speed.

Also its not the same price, its actually more expensive (not by much but its still more).

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  Reply # 1065884 15-Jun-2014 09:49
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Different modems have different chipsets that have different levels of compatibility with linecard chipsets. Price has nothing to do with this.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1065886 15-Jun-2014 09:51
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sbiddle: Different modems have different chipsets that have different levels of compatibility with linecard chipsets. Price has nothing to do with this.



Price of VDSL compared to ADSL... Not the price of the modems.

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  Reply # 1065887 15-Jun-2014 09:56
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But the price of an ADSL or VDSL modem has nothing to do with DSL performance. On some linecards can get better ADSL sync performance from a $30 TP-Link than what you will from a $500 Cisco 800 series.




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1065891 15-Jun-2014 10:02
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You've now got upstream that's roughly 10x faster than before so overall have a much better connection for the same price.


I was referring to the above quote from you. When I said it was more expensive I was talking about the CONNECTION. We are paying MORE for VDSL.

I know its irrelevant but I just wanted to make sure all the information was accurate and people were not making assumptions (which is why I also mention the the UL speed is  7.5x faster, not 10x).

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  Reply # 1065901 15-Jun-2014 11:06
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Ahh I thought pricing was virtually the same on all their new plans.

You really need to decide if it's worth it for the extra upload, I know there would be a lot of people around here who would kill for VDSL2 just for the upload.



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  Reply # 1066035 15-Jun-2014 15:39
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kornflake: 102 db upstream? Surly I am reading this wrong.


upload attenuates faster on VDSL. its fine.

sbiddle: Making tweaks will in all likelihood make your connection worse, not better. You're clearly in a marginal area and things aren't going to get better.

You've now got upstream that's roughly 10x faster than before so overall have a much better connection for the same price.


sbiddle: Different modems have different chipsets that have different levels of compatibility with linecard chipsets. Price has nothing to do with this.


exactly this.

DarkMain:
You've now got upstream that's roughly 10x faster than before so overall have a much better connection for the same price.


I was referring to the above quote from you. When I said it was more expensive I was talking about the CONNECTION. We are paying MORE for VDSL.

I know its irrelevant but I just wanted to make sure all the information was accurate and people were not making assumptions (which is why I also mention the the UL speed is  7.5x faster, not 10x).


if you feel a boost in upstream isnt worth having VDSL, then thats your choice. personally the boost in upload is worth it in its weight in gold alone.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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