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  Reply # 1218894 21-Jan-2015 10:30
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mrtoken:
NZCrusader: VF writing the rule book on how to alienate customers, make staff fearful for their jobs, extend customer service woes and not post a profit?


I hope the CEO loves his job at VF and is determined to stay, because I seriously doubt he will ever get another good role anywhere else.




The real problem is for years vodafone NZ/AU were seen as cash cows for vodafone head office (UK) and investors.
Now that vodafone AU has had major problems (networks) and NZ prices have dropped they may now be seen as risks, the most costly expense to business is staff so if they want the books to look better or getting ready to sell companies will cut staff numbers to bring them back into the black and increase profits.
The main people that get hit by this is staff at the bottom of the ladder which tend to be the staff that have direct contact with customers.


That may be part of why this is happening, but I think Vodafone have realised they've bitten off more than they could chew by buying Telstra Clear, and trying to merge all the different systems into one huge organisation. Now they're starting to feel the pain of that purchase, IMO.

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  Reply # 1218997 21-Jan-2015 12:21
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muppet: What's a scrapheap to eat these days? Not much, that's for sure.


Yom Yom, more Telco CSR's ....





My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government


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  Reply # 1219052 21-Jan-2015 13:15
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quickymart:
mrtoken:
NZCrusader: VF writing the rule book on how to alienate customers, make staff fearful for their jobs, extend customer service woes and not post a profit?


I hope the CEO loves his job at VF and is determined to stay, because I seriously doubt he will ever get another good role anywhere else.




The real problem is for years vodafone NZ/AU were seen as cash cows for vodafone head office (UK) and investors.
Now that vodafone AU has had major problems (networks) and NZ prices have dropped they may now be seen as risks, the most costly expense to business is staff so if they want the books to look better or getting ready to sell companies will cut staff numbers to bring them back into the black and increase profits.
The main people that get hit by this is staff at the bottom of the ladder which tend to be the staff that have direct contact with customers.


That may be part of why this is happening, but I think Vodafone have realised they've bitten off more than they could chew by buying Telstra Clear, and trying to merge all the different systems into one huge organisation. Now they're starting to feel the pain of that purchase, IMO.




Firstly:
I think the purchase of Telstra Clear by VF was a good move *possibly better in hind sight if it had been by Call Plus*.

Personally I think the real issue is that there needs to be some expectation that profits and efficiency might take a hit for a year or two until systems are properly merged etc.
Some businesses go into panic mode as soon as profits are low and take durastic measures such as mass layoffs etc.




Secondly:
Sure NZ prices have dropped and telcos are not likely making as much as they were several years ago, but as we can all see its turning into a  Phone / Mobile / Internet / TV / Storage / Hosting (and more) services market.
Have to move with the times.

If the market is weak in one area, you invest in another sector which is more profitable to allow you to sell those services.

Also for the record, alienating customers who you might want to sell MULTIPLE services to, might not be such a good choice.




In summary I think its just a case of bad management.

Probably CEO and other senior management need to go, but whos going to listen to a few techies on a forum right?




NZ / AU Battlefield 4 Gaming Community
http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

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  Reply # 1219063 21-Jan-2015 13:21
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I think of all the ISPs in NZ, Spark are on the right track with the changes in the market, and the less revenue per raw connection. They know that the value is offering add on value services around the raw product. They may not be making much from it now, but it is all about getting the word out there and building up a cusotmer base for them at the moment. It does help though that they are already one of NZs largest ISPs. It is possibly why their share price was one of the better performers last year.

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  Reply # 1219075 21-Jan-2015 13:37
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Firstly:

I think the purchase of Telstra Clear by VF was a good move *possibly better in hind sight if it had been by Call Plus*.

Personally I think the real issue is that there needs to be some expectation that profits and efficiency might take a hit for a year or two until systems are properly merged etc.
Some businesses go into panic mode as soon as profits are low and take durastic measures such as mass layoffs etc.




Secondly:
Sure NZ prices have dropped and telcos are not likely making as much as they were several years ago, but as we can all see its turning into a  Phone / Mobile / Internet / TV / Storage / Hosting (and more) services market.
Have to move with the times.

If the market is weak in one area, you invest in another sector which is more profitable to allow you to sell those services.

Also for the record, alienating customers who you might want to sell MULTIPLE services to, might not be such a good choice.




In summary I think its just a case of bad management.

Probably CEO and other senior management need to go, but whos going to listen to a few techies on a forum right?


It's all well and easy to be critical of the management of a company when you sit outside it, with next to no facts on the operation or the factors affecting it. 

Am I happy with their current performance? Nope, not at all, however, they have been struggling for about 8 months, but have had a good number of years where they exceeded the expectations of us and our customers. I think people in this community are quick to criticize and slow to commend and have very short memories. 

You will always find a degree of unhappy customers in any large organization and the current batch of unhappy customers have good reasons (on the whole) to be unhappy.

It takes time to turn around a company that size and you need to understand they are owned by a larger group who don't see nor would have any business being involved at that level. look at Telecom, it's taken a good long time and it's not over yet.

The outsourcing decisions have not been finalized and the document that started this thread had no business being in the public domain. It's done far more harm than good. 

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  Reply # 1219104 21-Jan-2015 13:51
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NZ is a small country so there is a good chance that a number of people have met or worked with or for Vodafone's senior management, and therefore have an opinion based on experience and\or observation.  Say maybe having watched the same people leave other subsidiaries in much worse positions than when they took them over.

I think it's also worth considering that being the right CEO for Vodafone prior to purchasing TCL doesn't mean you are the right CEO for a much bigger company.  

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  Reply # 1219118 21-Jan-2015 14:01
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Glassboy: NZ is a small country so there is a good chance that a number of people have met or worked with or for Vodafone's senior management, and therefore have an opinion based on experience and\or observation.  Say maybe having watched the same people leave other subsidiaries in much worse positions than when they took them over.

I think it's also worth considering that being the right CEO for Vodafone prior to purchasing TCL doesn't mean you are the right CEO for a much bigger company.  


Right, but equally those people likely don't know what additional oversight/restrictions are in place (or not) since the takeover or what company goals have changed etc. 

Big companies just can't be an agile as a lot of people wish they could be. Listed companies especially have a LOT of conditions on the way they run or operate that your average person would have no understanding of. 

I know when a couple of the vendors we worked for went from listed to privately owned, it seemed almost impossible how much more quickly everything happened. 


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  Reply # 1219143 21-Jan-2015 14:19
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networkn:
Glassboy: NZ is a small country so there is a good chance that a number of people have met or worked with or for Vodafone's senior management, and therefore have an opinion based on experience and\or observation.  Say maybe having watched the same people leave other subsidiaries in much worse positions than when they took them over.

I think it's also worth considering that being the right CEO for Vodafone prior to purchasing TCL doesn't mean you are the right CEO for a much bigger company.  


Right, but equally those people likely don't know what additional oversight/restrictions are in place (or not) since the takeover or what company goals have changed etc. 

Big companies just can't be an agile as a lot of people wish they could be. Listed companies especially have a LOT of conditions on the way they run or operate that your average person would have no understanding of. 

I know when a couple of the vendors we worked for went from listed to privately owned, it seemed almost impossible how much more quickly everything happened. 



I don't think that's directly relevant.  If for example you had seen a CEO leave a company in worse state than he had found it, why shouldn't you assume the poor performance of the next company he is the CEO of isn't related to his lack of ability?  Or to be fairer, isn't it safe to assume that if the company had a CEO with a proven track record would perform better?

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  Reply # 1219147 21-Jan-2015 14:21
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Glassboy:
networkn:
Glassboy: NZ is a small country so there is a good chance that a number of people have met or worked with or for Vodafone's senior management, and therefore have an opinion based on experience and\or observation.  Say maybe having watched the same people leave other subsidiaries in much worse positions than when they took them over.

I think it's also worth considering that being the right CEO for Vodafone prior to purchasing TCL doesn't mean you are the right CEO for a much bigger company.  


Right, but equally those people likely don't know what additional oversight/restrictions are in place (or not) since the takeover or what company goals have changed etc. 

Big companies just can't be an agile as a lot of people wish they could be. Listed companies especially have a LOT of conditions on the way they run or operate that your average person would have no understanding of. 

I know when a couple of the vendors we worked for went from listed to privately owned, it seemed almost impossible how much more quickly everything happened. 



I don't think that's directly relevant.  If for example you had seen a CEO leave a company in worse state than he had found it, why shouldn't you assume the poor performance of the next company he is the CEO of isn't related to his lack of ability?  Or to be fairer, isn't it safe to assume that if the company had a CEO with a proven track record would perform better?


I'd suggest RS has done a great job until pretty recently. VF was going really well until quite recently.

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  Reply # 1219150 21-Jan-2015 14:26
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networkn: 

I'd suggest RS has done a great job until pretty recently. VF was going really well until quite recently.


I'm not sure what your criteria for "quite well" is.  For example do you have a view of what is happening with their large commercial clients or are you expressing an opinion based on domestic ISP and mobile customers?

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  Reply # 1219164 21-Jan-2015 14:43
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If by "recently" you mean "prior to the TCL purchase", then yes, I would tend to agree.

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  Reply # 1219194 21-Jan-2015 15:09
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Glassboy:
networkn: 

I'd suggest RS has done a great job until pretty recently. VF was going really well until quite recently.


I'm not sure what your criteria for "quite well" is.  For example do you have a view of what is happening with their large commercial clients or are you expressing an opinion based on domestic ISP and mobile customers?


I'm basing that on subscriber numbers and profits, and general customer feedback I see/hear/experience.

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  Reply # 1219197 21-Jan-2015 15:11
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quickymart: If by "recently" you mean "prior to the TCL purchase", then yes, I would tend to agree.


Yes I'd have to say, until they started "merging" the two seriously, things were going well, now not so much. The easy part is handing over the cash having been involved in acquisitions personally myself.

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  Reply # 1219237 21-Jan-2015 15:41
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networkn:
Glassboy:
networkn: 

I'd suggest RS has done a great job until pretty recently. VF was going really well until quite recently.


I'm not sure what your criteria for "quite well" is.  For example do you have a view of what is happening with their large commercial clients or are you expressing an opinion based on domestic ISP and mobile customers?


I'm basing that on subscriber numbers and profits, and general customer feedback I see/hear/experience.


So it sounds like you're referring to domestic customers only.

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  Reply # 1219284 21-Jan-2015 16:03
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Glassboy:
networkn:
Glassboy:
networkn: 

I'd suggest RS has done a great job until pretty recently. VF was going really well until quite recently.


I'm not sure what your criteria for "quite well" is.  For example do you have a view of what is happening with their large commercial clients or are you expressing an opinion based on domestic ISP and mobile customers?


I'm basing that on subscriber numbers and profits, and general customer feedback I see/hear/experience.


So it sounds like you're referring to domestic customers only.


Actually primary we are a Business IT Provider, so I deal primarily with business customers from 1 to 200 users.

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