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183 posts

Master Geek
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  # 94020 6-Nov-2007 22:36
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I don't believe Kiwi was suggesting we have explicit "rights" to any freedom of expression as members. But it's important that forum administrators understand the importance of allowing a certain degree of freedom for users. Obviously it's your prerogative to keep it clean, but so often I have seen promising forums flounder, because moderators become heavy handed. Sadly, this often occurs due to a small group of "core users" befriending administration staff, and it winds up with this group more or less controlling the content of the forum. Even more concerningly, this often happens with sponsors and psuedo-sponsors, and it almost always ends in the demise of a budding young forum with great potential.

The powers that be must never take their communities ability to express their feelings for granted, because soon enough suppressed users leave, and that's bad for any community. Member's of this forum may not have explicit rights, but as major stakeholders of the forum we have substantial intrinsic rights, as we're the ones who allow the forum to exist and grow. We're as much contributors to the success or future success of online communities as the people who run them.

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# 94021 6-Nov-2007 22:52
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MikeGayner: I don't believe Kiwi was suggesting we have explicit "rights" to any freedom of expression as members. But it's important that forum administrators understand the importance of allowing a certain degree of freedom for users. Obviously it's your prerogative to keep it clean, but so often I have seen promising forums flounder, because moderators become heavy handed. Sadly, this often occurs due to a small group of "core users" befriending administration staff, and it winds up with this group more or less controlling the content of the forum. Even more concerningly, this often happens with sponsors and psuedo-sponsors, and it almost always ends in the demise of a budding young forum with great potential.

The powers that be must never take their communities ability to express their feelings for granted, because soon enough suppressed users leave, and that's bad for any community. Member's of this forum may not have explicit rights, but as major stakeholders of the forum we have substantial intrinsic rights, as we're the ones who allow the forum to exist and grow. We're as much contributors to the success or future success of online communities as the people who run them.


You are correct in your assertion. But what Tony pointed out is just one of the points we discussed just this last weekend when all moderators met here in Wellington...

Basically one's rights ends where someone else's rights begin.

People are free to post in the forum, providing they follow the rules. Providing the user is not trolling, link dropping, writing personal attacks and not posting libel in general it's ok to write relevant posts.

The moderators here do not have "friends" in the sense. I've seen friends being advised to stay in line and I am sure you will understand those who complain of "heavy hand" here are most likely the trolls who are banned for, well, being trolls.




 
 
 
 


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Master Geek


  # 94028 7-Nov-2007 00:09
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tonyhughes:
KiwiOverseas66: Firstly (and mods, please correct me if I'm wrong) - this is a public forum. As long as people register, abide by the terms and conditions, and stay on topic they can make as much nebulous noise as they like. Its entirely their right to do so. If its isn't appropriate then I'm sure the mods will act accordingly - but up until that point the essential question is whether or not its relevant to the forum.


Hi Kiwi, this reply is not a moan at you, its just an answer to your post :o)

This is a common misconception, the forums are the private property of the New Zealand company whoms server they run on. They are publicly accessible, just like a businesses reception area is, but they are most definitley not a 'public forum', users have no 'rights' here, other than basic NZ law (certainly no right to say whatever they please).


Hi Tony.  No problems - I didn't word it quite accurately but yes - public access is what I meant (as in its part of the public domain - on the internet - not owned by the public).  Absolutely this is the property of Geekzone and we are all here by the good grace of Frietasm. That's sort of what I meant as well in terms of registering,following the rules, and staying on topic (by doing so you accept the terms under which the forum operates). Perhaps I didn't state it strongly enough but by doing the above - you are not free to do what ever you like - you accept the rules and work within them.

As Freitasm said in his reply

People are free to post in the forum, providing they follow the rules. Providing the user is not trolling, link dropping, writing personal attacks and not posting libel in general it's ok to write relevant posts.
That's what I meant.

My reason for pointing it out was that the reply from Worldx seem to be suggesting that some of the comments by forum users were a waste of time (nebulous noise).  My point is that within the terms and conditions of the forum - the users are entitled to make various statements and comments - again - as long as the stay within the terms and conditions of the forum (all part of ensuring there is healthy debate and conversation). More specifically:

1) Shrap is a guest of the forum as am I - everyone is equal as long as they stick to the rules (well - with the exception of the yourself, the other mods, and Freitasm). If users are on topic - who's to say what is and isn't relevant,
2) Whether or not its relevant to Worldx is not the question. Its whether or not its relevant to Geekzone, and contributes to the thread,
3) As said - I thought it was pretty gutsy of Worldx to come onto the forums and front up - so full marks to them for that. And without doubt the popularity of their service speaks for itself. I just got the impression that with comments like - "nebulous noise", "project slippage", and "I have no intention of revealing our topology" - Worldx were trying to manage the fall out from this situation.  Fair enough - a standard management technique that we've all seen before (maybe even used on occassions). Personally I prefer to make my own assessment.

there's a couple of other things but Worldx are working hard, are providing what looks to be a very popular service, and have taken the trouble to front up and reply on Geekzone.  Well done on all three counts.

So apologies again for any confusion (and also, for mistaking you for Brad - not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that...Brad)

oh crap...I'll just shut up.;-)
 

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# 94048 7-Nov-2007 10:27
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KiwiOverseas66: So apologies again for any confusion (and also, for mistaking you for Brad - not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that...Brad)


Do you need a shovel to dig that hole a little deeper? Lol

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  # 94079 7-Nov-2007 14:57
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It's a curious facet of human nature, we are complainers by nature and if there's not something important to complain people will find minor things to complain about.. With that said.......

Lets say wxc/xnet posted that summary of what they were doing back at the start of September in advance of actually doing any of it. We'd be expecting the changes and complaining they weren't finished yet, we'd be complaining they were 4 weeks late.

Effectively we'd have been complaining the last 3 months regardless... You can kind of see how they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

However.....

I came very close to switching to Telstra PDQ multiple times during the last couple of months, the only thing that stopped me really was their stupid tolls tie in and their reputation for slow customer service in terms of getting a connection xfer'd/setup/interleaving off etc.

If I'd had the information regarding decent upgrades being in the works for xnet I would have almost certainly been more relaxed during the last month or two. Minor complaining about delays vs major complaining and being a hairs breath away from changing providers. It's clear which is the lesser evil imo

Has xnet considerd a corporate blog for this kind of infomation?

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WorldxChange

  # 94104 7-Nov-2007 17:44
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Ragnor: It's a curious facet of human nature, we are complainers by nature and if there's not something important to complain people will find minor things to complain about.. With that said.......

Lets say wxc/xnet posted that summary of what they were doing back at the start of September in advance of actually doing any of it. We'd be expecting the changes and complaining they weren't finished yet, we'd be complaining they were 4 weeks late.

Effectively we'd have been complaining the last 3 months regardless... You can kind of see how they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

However.....

I came very close to switching to Telstra PDQ multiple times during the last couple of months, the only thing that stopped me really was their stupid tolls tie in and their reputation for slow customer service in terms of getting a connection xfer'd/setup/interleaving off etc.

If I'd had the information regarding decent upgrades being in the works for xnet I would have almost certainly been more relaxed during the last month or two. Minor complaining about delays vs major complaining and being a hairs breath away from changing providers. It's clear which is the lesser evil imo

Has xnet considerd a corporate blog for this kind of infomation?



First let me say Nice Post Cool,

We are damned if we do and damned if we don't, but we fully accept and appreciate that.

However......Laughing

Paul wrote a very nice and frank piece explaining what was happening, also pointing to a couple of reasons why were late to the party so to speak, can we do better ?......probably, nobody is perfect but we try very hard to treat our customers fairly and openly. we also address concerns directly in an public forum not to many others will do this, but there can be occassions when for whatever reasons we will not and can not respond in the timeframe some people will like, as seen by this thread, but I hope people can understand, you may not agree but that's okay as well.

Will be do better.......hopefully ? as I said nobody is perfect and we will always try and improve , just like we try to always improve with products and service. part of that is getting the feedback through places like this, good and bad it's all feedback and does help us to undestand what are customers are seeing, experiencing etc.

In a way by being so open and direct also puts us under more scrunity, fair enough we choose to be here and commuincate and I think we do a pretty fair job all round, people get to see our products, get to discuss them in an open forum and we open ourselves up to public discussion on this, it works well for us and I believe for our customers and potential customers.

One of the reasons WorldxChange choose to directly interact here on Geekzone was due to some of these reasons, we could have been like others and run our own forums and had our own admins controlling topics, discussions, locking them down and deleting them when we don't like the questions asked, but it could then be accussed of being all rah rah and one sided, we chose here because we totally believe in our Company and all our product and services and were happy for them to be discussed in an open forum where we do not run or even have admin rights Geekzone is a technolgy forum and we are a technolgy company this is good place for the 2 to combine for discussion on our product.......contrary to popular belief Laughing We actually do not have admin rights on this forum, the forum is controlled by the Admin and Mods of Geekzone, we are treated just like any user here, we are not a sponser in any way (sorry Mauricio) the difference I suppose is that we are active on GZ as a company where others are not so our profile here will be higher than others.

Personally I like it this way, direct connection with our customers is important to us as it lets us keep in touch and promotes honest discussion......anyway my 2 cents worth.



a little bit off topic I know, I will take myself aside and give myself a good talking too I promise Wink





Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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Geek


  # 94106 7-Nov-2007 17:48
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Ragnor: Has xnet considerd a corporate blog for this kind of infomation?


Or just at least keeping customers in the loop. Even the CSR's at Xnet didnt seem to know what was going on. One of the ones I spoke to had just had enough of people ringing with questions on speed and wanted his weekend off.

I do find the customer service with Xnet definitly above average, But not letting us know why you arent delivering the service we are paying for is what Id call a Telecom strategy.

Dont be the bad guys.

 
 
 
 


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  # 94109 7-Nov-2007 17:55
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defyboy:
Or just at least keeping customers in the loop. Even the CSR's at Xnet didnt seem to know what was going on. One of the ones I spoke to had just had enough of people ringing with questions on speed and wanted his weekend off.


Exactly! I've talked to three CSRs, and not one knew what the problem was. In fact, the first one didn't even know there was a problem. (The thrid explained that they weren't told about the problem until very recently)




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Master Geek


  # 94125 7-Nov-2007 18:24
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6.20 pm  

speed to  LA  =  173 kBytes     Laughing

has Xnet   implemented  the extra bandwidth   ?? 


regards, Bruce.  



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  # 94130 7-Nov-2007 18:52
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What kind of speeds do you get nationally?

And do you mind posting the first two octets of your IP address? (ie: 210.246.)




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Ultimate Geek


  # 94131 7-Nov-2007 19:12
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3 of the last 6 email notifications for this post aren't on line. Is someone posting rubbish which is being deleted or is the system overloaded? cheers George

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  # 94132 7-Nov-2007 19:16
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I'd venture a guess and say that some posts were removed, which would trigger the alerts being sent out.




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Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


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Ultimate Geek


  # 94136 7-Nov-2007 19:41
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you would have thought that there would be a delay in sending the email so that if the post was deleted for some reason the email would not be sent. cheers George

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Uber Geek


  # 94137 7-Nov-2007 19:43
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It'd be more difficult to program the software to do that than to send the notifications instantly.
Of course, the posts could just be being deleted after that delay, anyway.




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Master Geek


  # 94140 7-Nov-2007 19:57
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Detruire: What kind of speeds do you get nationally?

And do you mind posting the first two octets of your IP address? (ie: 210.246.)


 octet  58.26  = Xnet 

  7.54 pm   auckland to  LA   95.0 kBytes      
                 auckland to  Wellington   219.8  kBytes    


regards  Bruce.  



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