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  Reply # 1275466 1-Apr-2015 15:46
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richms: Also cant get cash out with it, cant use an atm with it.

Mainly I want it as a backup if I go to the servo and find I forgot my wallet or something. More ways to access my money is only a good thing no matter how stupid it looks to use it.

If I could pay friends with it between banks it would be useful, but only if it happened immediatly.


You can't get cash out with Visa Wave either so no biggie there! I have been testing it for the past 6  months and loved the convenience of not lugging a purse around. Luckily there weren't many merchants who didn't have the correct terminal. Most are up to date. I also did the support for it from start to finish so know pretty much how it works from point A to B. just finished setting the teen up with her note 3! Ha, only problem is she has no money in her account (evil laugh)

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  Reply # 1275468 1-Apr-2015 15:46
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markl:
askelon: Got mine via Spark today.  $5 for a sim but its all good. Linked it to my ASB account. Havent actually used it yet. Would have been far better if it supposed ATHOP and the likes though.  At least now I have another use for NFC other than syncing my BT Headset :p 


Got a passport? Read the data off it....

Not very useful but still, it's something to do... lol


Waiting to scan the dog too ;-)

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1275470 1-Apr-2015 15:47
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thecatsgoolies:
richms: Also cant get cash out with it, cant use an atm with it.

Mainly I want it as a backup if I go to the servo and find I forgot my wallet or something. More ways to access my money is only a good thing no matter how stupid it looks to use it.

If I could pay friends with it between banks it would be useful, but only if it happened immediatly.


You can't get cash out with Visa Wave either so no biggie there!


True, but given that your Paywave enabled card can be used in an ATM, but your phone can't....I'd say RichMS has a good point...

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  Reply # 1275489 1-Apr-2015 16:18
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Still no Sims at spark glenfield. Also outside spark glenfield stinks of wd40 for some reason.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 1275493 1-Apr-2015 16:21
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markl:
thecatsgoolies:
richms: Also cant get cash out with it, cant use an atm with it.

Mainly I want it as a backup if I go to the servo and find I forgot my wallet or something. More ways to access my money is only a good thing no matter how stupid it looks to use it.

If I could pay friends with it between banks it would be useful, but only if it happened immediatly.


You can't get cash out with Visa Wave either so no biggie there!


True, but given that your Paywave enabled card can be used in an ATM, but your phone can't....I'd say RichMS has a good point...


I could try my phone in an ATM but feel it would probably break! but still like the convenience of the wallet in my phone ;-)

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  Reply # 1275496 1-Apr-2015 16:23
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richms: Still no Sims at spark glenfield. Also outside spark glenfield stinks of wd40 for some reason.


Not available in all stores. As per Spark's website: http://www.spark.co.nz/semble   You can order online.. or

Semble SIM available instore:

Auckland: Sylvia Park, Botany and Queen Street
Christchurch (Riccarton)
Dunedin
Wellington: Queensgate, Lambton Quay and Willis Street

Until advised, I believe these are the only places you can walk in and grab a Semble SIM.

[edit: formatting fix. perhaps my keyboard needs some WD40]

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  Reply # 1275503 1-Apr-2015 16:33
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markl:
thecatsgoolies:
richms: Also cant get cash out with it, cant use an atm with it.

Mainly I want it as a backup if I go to the servo and find I forgot my wallet or something. More ways to access my money is only a good thing no matter how stupid it looks to use it.

If I could pay friends with it between banks it would be useful, but only if it happened immediatly.


You can't get cash out with Visa Wave either so no biggie there!


True, but given that your Paywave enabled card can be used in an ATM, but your phone can't....I'd say RichMS has a good point...


Semble is a credit card replacement, not an EFTPOS card replacement. Yes you can use your Paywave enabled card at an ATM, but who would want to get cash out on a credit card and immediately pay 22% interest?



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  Reply # 1275510 1-Apr-2015 16:38
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sbiddle:
markl:
thecatsgoolies:
richms: Also cant get cash out with it, cant use an atm with it.

Mainly I want it as a backup if I go to the servo and find I forgot my wallet or something. More ways to access my money is only a good thing no matter how stupid it looks to use it.

If I could pay friends with it between banks it would be useful, but only if it happened immediatly.


You can't get cash out with Visa Wave either so no biggie there!


True, but given that your Paywave enabled card can be used in an ATM, but your phone can't....I'd say RichMS has a good point...


Semble is a credit card replacement, not an EFTPOS card replacement. Yes you can use your Paywave enabled card at an ATM, but who would want to get cash out on a credit card and immediately pay 22% interest?




I use paywave all the time...with my DEBIT card.... It's a mastercard, but not...uses real money. Westpac's default (?) EFTPOS card is now a Mastercard Debit. Can use it for paywave, to pay for things online, via Mastercard network, but it is backed by your transactional accounts. So because it's both in one card, I can also get cash from an ATM, etc, etc. 



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  Reply # 1275512 1-Apr-2015 16:44
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markl:
sbiddle:
markl:
thecatsgoolies:
richms: Also cant get cash out with it, cant use an atm with it.

Mainly I want it as a backup if I go to the servo and find I forgot my wallet or something. More ways to access my money is only a good thing no matter how stupid it looks to use it.

If I could pay friends with it between banks it would be useful, but only if it happened immediatly.


You can't get cash out with Visa Wave either so no biggie there!


True, but given that your Paywave enabled card can be used in an ATM, but your phone can't....I'd say RichMS has a good point...


Semble is a credit card replacement, not an EFTPOS card replacement. Yes you can use your Paywave enabled card at an ATM, but who would want to get cash out on a credit card and immediately pay 22% interest?




I use paywave all the time...with my DEBIT card.... It's a mastercard, but not...uses real money. Westpac's default (?) EFTPOS card is now a Mastercard Debit. Can use it for paywave, to pay for things online, via Mastercard network, but it is backed by your transactional accounts. So because it's both in one card, I can also get cash from an ATM, etc, etc. 




Which is exactly my point. Semble is a credit card replacement. It is not a debit card replacement.



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  Reply # 1275566 1-Apr-2015 17:39
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sbiddle:

Which is exactly my point. Semble is a credit card replacement. It is not a debit card replacement.



Yep, I get that. My point is that a Credit Card replacement isn't needed. We have that already - Debit cards with paywave/paypass are the current state of the art for this. Does Semble beat that? No. It's not even an OPTION for most people due to lack of bank support, and the need to have a (mostly) high end handset. Add to that the inconvenience of having to get your wallet out sometimes still, (e.g to withdraw cash, to tap onto public transport, etc) and it's a bit of a hard ask for most people I'd say. 

You say it's "a credit card replacement" - but I don't think it's going to replace anything for most people. 

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  Reply # 1275588 1-Apr-2015 18:16
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markl:
mattbush: Its rather pathetic....firstly cause its android only and secondly cause its only 2 banks. It will get swallowed up by a more global alternative sooner or later..hopefully sooner.


I kind of agree with you - though not because of the reasoning-deficient assertion that it will fail because "its (sic) android only". With Android phone handsets making up over 80% of all handsets sold, it makes sense to target Android if you're going for only one platform. Regardless of that though, it's clear that the main reason it's not also on Apple is because the Jobsians lock everything down and mere mortals cannot code against their NFC API (yet??). As for Windows Phone, well, there just isn't the market share there. 

No, the real reason I agree with you is that I find it ridiculous that the carriers are locking it down to certain handsets, and only ones they've provided at that. Not only that, but they are the more expensive ones. I wouldn't be surprised if before long you have to have an on-account plan with them, and then it'll change to be a "premium" plan, etc., etc. I also (strongly) dislike the fact that I have to go in and get a replacement SIM card. Maybe HCE isn't a good solution, I'm not an expert, but I'd certainly prefer not to have to stand in line at a Vodafone store for an hour and a half waiting for the one staff member to complete someone elses long and drawn out on-account signup, or to put a screen protector on granny's new phone, just to replace my current sim with a new one. And what about better bank support?? Only two banks in it? No ANZ, no Westpac, no Kiwibank...that's the majority of NZer's automatically ruled out then. Let me be clear: people are NOT going to switch banks to use this service. Nor would they switch carriers, and likely that's why they signed all 3 of them up. So why not try really, REALLY hard to get more banks on board? I mean, if you can't get enough bank support, then the service, and therefore Semble itself, is never going to be a viable business.

Also, whether Semble see it this way or not, it's clear that from the carrier's point of view this is just another chance to try and push people into paying them more money. And when you consider that for most, it's going to be a tough sell to replace the use of a lightweight, already-conventional, credit or debit card with a phone anyway, there's really no incentive to try this thing out. 

So to my mind, it's the barriers to adoption that they've thrown up here that are the real things that will kill it.


At home now and re-reading this.

I agree with you in sentiment. However, because the solution Semble decided to adopt requires a secure element in the SIM card, it had to have the telcos' participation, otherwise it wouldn't even start.

Now the question is really "what's in it for me?" from the telcos' point of view - and the question I'd like to know the answer to. As you mention it could be that at some point they change this to be a premium service available only to on-account, new customers, locked in to 24 month contracts. Or not - because it would be dumb start as free and then move to premium, when the other way around makes more sense (remember Vodafone charging extra for 4G and having a "special 4G SIM"?)

So what's really in it for them? Selling higher end smartphones? But we already established there's a cheaper option with the Vodafone Smart 4 (not sure about the other two telcos though).

What's in it for banks is easy to establish. It's a bit harder to understand why telcos decided to join.






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  Reply # 1275647 1-Apr-2015 19:31
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markl:
Yep, I get that. My point is that a Credit Card replacement isn't needed. We have that already - Debit cards with paywave/paypass are the current state of the art for this. Does Semble beat that? No. It's not even an OPTION for most people due to lack of bank support, and the need to have a (mostly) high end handset. Add to that the inconvenience of having to get your wallet out sometimes still, (e.g to withdraw cash, to tap onto public transport, etc) and it's a bit of a hard ask for most people I'd say. 

You say it's "a credit card replacement" - but I don't think it's going to replace anything for most people. 


Like plenty of other people out there I'd never go near a debit card because I have absolutely no use for one, and would certainly never want to use one. A debit card is not (and never will be) a credit card replacement, it's a totally different product, which is the reason I'd never want one.

As I don't have a compatible phone at present it's not an option for me, but having both my Snapper card and Credit Card on my phone would be magical, and will be a reality for everybody within a matter of months.







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  Reply # 1275655 1-Apr-2015 19:35
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freitasm:
markl:
mattbush: Its rather pathetic....firstly cause its android only and secondly cause its only 2 banks. It will get swallowed up by a more global alternative sooner or later..hopefully sooner.


I kind of agree with you - though not because of the reasoning-deficient assertion that it will fail because "its (sic) android only". With Android phone handsets making up over 80% of all handsets sold, it makes sense to target Android if you're going for only one platform. Regardless of that though, it's clear that the main reason it's not also on Apple is because the Jobsians lock everything down and mere mortals cannot code against their NFC API (yet??). As for Windows Phone, well, there just isn't the market share there. 

No, the real reason I agree with you is that I find it ridiculous that the carriers are locking it down to certain handsets, and only ones they've provided at that. Not only that, but they are the more expensive ones. I wouldn't be surprised if before long you have to have an on-account plan with them, and then it'll change to be a "premium" plan, etc., etc. I also (strongly) dislike the fact that I have to go in and get a replacement SIM card. Maybe HCE isn't a good solution, I'm not an expert, but I'd certainly prefer not to have to stand in line at a Vodafone store for an hour and a half waiting for the one staff member to complete someone elses long and drawn out on-account signup, or to put a screen protector on granny's new phone, just to replace my current sim with a new one. And what about better bank support?? Only two banks in it? No ANZ, no Westpac, no Kiwibank...that's the majority of NZer's automatically ruled out then. Let me be clear: people are NOT going to switch banks to use this service. Nor would they switch carriers, and likely that's why they signed all 3 of them up. So why not try really, REALLY hard to get more banks on board? I mean, if you can't get enough bank support, then the service, and therefore Semble itself, is never going to be a viable business.

Also, whether Semble see it this way or not, it's clear that from the carrier's point of view this is just another chance to try and push people into paying them more money. And when you consider that for most, it's going to be a tough sell to replace the use of a lightweight, already-conventional, credit or debit card with a phone anyway, there's really no incentive to try this thing out. 

So to my mind, it's the barriers to adoption that they've thrown up here that are the real things that will kill it.


At home now and re-reading this.

I agree with you in sentiment. However, because the solution Semble decided to adopt requires a secure element in the SIM card, it had to have the telcos' participation, otherwise it wouldn't even start.

Now the question is really "what's in it for me?" from the telcos' point of view - and the question I'd like to know the answer to. As you mention it could be that at some point they change this to be a premium service available only to on-account, new customers, locked in to 24 month contracts. Or not - because it would be dumb start as free and then move to premium, when the other way around makes more sense (remember Vodafone charging extra for 4G and having a "special 4G SIM"?)

So what's really in it for them? Selling higher end smartphones? But we already established there's a cheaper option with the Vodafone Smart 4 (not sure about the other two telcos though).

What's in it for banks is easy to establish. It's a bit harder to understand why telcos decided to join.




I would have expected the Telco's to at least provide free sim cards...

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  Reply # 1275658 1-Apr-2015 19:37
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sbiddle:
markl:
Yep, I get that. My point is that a Credit Card replacement isn't needed. We have that already - Debit cards with paywave/paypass are the current state of the art for this. Does Semble beat that? No. It's not even an OPTION for most people due to lack of bank support, and the need to have a (mostly) high end handset. Add to that the inconvenience of having to get your wallet out sometimes still, (e.g to withdraw cash, to tap onto public transport, etc) and it's a bit of a hard ask for most people I'd say. 

You say it's "a credit card replacement" - but I don't think it's going to replace anything for most people. 


Like plenty of other people out there I'd never go near a debit card because I have absolutely no use for one, and would certainly never want to use one. A debit card is not (and never will be) a credit card replacement, it's a totally different product, which is the reason I'd never want one.

As I don't have a compatible phone at present it's not an option for me, but having both my Snapper card and Credit Card on my phone would be magical, and will be a reality for everybody within a matter of months.








Hmmm, so you'd rather go into debt on a credit card than use your own actual money using a debit card?

Each to their own I suppose, but most people are better off avoiding debt...

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  Reply # 1275668 1-Apr-2015 19:59
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markl:
Hmmm, so you'd rather go into debt on a credit card than use your own actual money using a debit card?

Each to their own I suppose, but most people are better off avoiding debt...


Yes. I pay my credit card off each month so have ~50 days interest free.

Last year I spent 40+ nights in hotels and probably had about  a dozen rental car hires. Many hotels and cart companies won't accept debit cards, and even if they do you're immediately stung with anywhere from $100 - $2000 of YOUR money that you can no longer spend because it's held as security for anything up to a week until the hold clears. If your debit card is compromised it's your money that's taken. Yes the bank will reverse the charges if you're deemed not to be liable, but in the mean time it's your money that's gone.

There are very good reasons for a debit card - if you're somebody who has financial issues and can't control their spending so doesn't want the temptation of a credit card, they're the perfect solution. For most other people I see them as an incredibly bad idea.



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