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Reply # 95630 17-Nov-2007 09:05
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tonyhughes:
SteveC: Is there another provider who does things this way? I was expecting something that offered me a SIP trunk, and allowed me to connect what I like to it - at my risk.
Yes, you are looking for iTalk - standard SIP, unlocked devices, use anything. I hear not great things about call quality, general quality of voice service, and customer service, but that’s all 2nd hand info - im sure they have lots of happy customers.

WorldXChange never offered 'SIP trunks that you can connect what you like to it' - they have been very upfront about their reasons for lockdowns, and this latest offering is still only soft-launched, and has always been touted as 'Asterisk support', not 'bring your own SIP device support' like iTalk has. Cheers :)


It is a very interesting academic issue (... and academic is what I do ....). My take on it is that Telcos go on the conservative end of the .... continuum. Ask a true-blooded Telstra (I did a few weeks ago) or Telecom (haven't had a chat with them for a year or so) tech, they will you about lots of '9s', and how amazingly unreliable the lower cost services are. It's true! I've had VFX for about three months, and twice I've noticed the phone has gone dead for a few minutes, because our Telstra broadband went down. Shock! Horror! Probe! Sorry to anyone who tried to ring me during those 10 or so minutes out of three months, but we really like paying $15 a month less in the phone bill! ( + we like some of the other features that we never wanted to pay Telstra forTongue out.)

VFX have picked their spot on this continuum - and I'm sure Phil and I could discuss the pros and cons of that particular spot, and we would respect each other's view, and get on with life. I was contemplating getting a VFX connection for my students (running a VoIP course for the first time next year Laughing), but want to try it on Asterisk first. Easiest way would be to try it at home first - but I will only do that if I can plug the reliable ole Linksys box back in before my partner gets home in the evening, as she will want to phone to 'just work'!Embarassed

I've tried a few providers:
iTalk - product worked fine for me, fractionally cheaper than VFX - minor quality issue that I probably could have fixed - but the customer service was so bad that I baled out during my 10-day 'no questions refund' period. More details: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=65&topicid=15661
2talk - won a TUANZ award at the same awards ceremony where WxC won theirs a month or to ago. Call quality is fine (someone else in this forum said they had issues - maybe it was Telecom ADSL), customer service is great, similar range of features to WxC, no restrictions on what SIP device you connect to it. Doesn't do number porting (yet) and charges for local calls.
FreeCall - works. In some circumstances, calls are pretty much free (hence the name), and even charged calls a generally only cost 1.8c per minute. Voice quality issues (mainly delay), but students still prefer to use that rather than paying to use their own cellphones (ref continuum above) Never tried to access customer service - configure any SIP device, and it works! Few added features.
Other NZ Telco - Excellent voice quality, unlimited simultaneous calls (that is SIPish for 'lines'), but customer service suffers because they are wholesalers, who just gave me the SIP trunk for my research.
Telecom - Have promised to get back to me (about three months ago - must get on to that). My students are going to have to configure Telecom VoIP by 2012, so would like them to start now (we do applied learningWink) - or will Telecom configure everything themselves, and charge through the noise for it? (ref continuum above).
TelstraClear - What is VoIP? Oh! You mean Skype? (Not quite that bad, but might as well be with the responses I've had from them so far.)

Humm ... to get back to my original question:

SteveC: Is there another provider who does things this way?
... I've tried five providers, each has their merits ... and VFX is the only one that ties you to certain hardware ... not that I'm knocking the policy particularly, it has its merits, and it’s their choice. It is all in the great Telco continuum!Laughing





Steve Cosgrove
Senior Lecturer, Data Networking & Communication. Legal Main Contact, Cisco Network Academy
Whitireia Community Polytechnic, Porirua.  mailto:s.cosgrove@whitireia.ac.nz
Things I write here are usually my opinion, but not necessarily those of my employer!



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WorldxChange

  Reply # 95633 17-Nov-2007 09:24
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SteveC:
tonyhughes: Which is what I expected, I was just after confirmation...

Is there another provider who does things this way? I was expecting something that offered me a SIP trunk, and allowed me to connect what I like to it - at my risk. That is the purpose of an open standard.


Argh this old chessnut...well where do I start as I have discussed this a number of times in a lot of threads, but it's worth answering again, and please I do understand your thoughts on this as it has been raised before, so the comments here are for everyone so they can better understand our methods or madness (your call on that).

SIP is open standards yes but in that lies the problem, different implementations of the the SIP stack and different SIP settings can have a large impact on a VOIP Network, you actually have to take a step bak and look at the bigger picture and not just your SIP device you wish to connect. Our approach to this has been to offer from the very start a Carrier Grade fixed line replacement , in that I mean we look to offer the best product and services to the general public on mass so they do have a real choice for phone line replacement, what we don't wan't is a flakey service were some things work and some don't don't, what should happen is that mom and dad , granddad and grandma can have one of these devices plug it in and it will work...alll the service's, call forwards, DND, Voicemail. anonomous call rejection, VM to EMail etc as well as the networking part of it, calls do hang up correctly, calls can transfer CLI is passed or blocked correctly and I could go on , opening up a network to a connect any and everything you want is not we believe a Carrier Grade PSTN replacement service should be, this type of approach can and does comprise quality and service and sorry that is just not we are about.

There a a couple of options out there for this kind of approach but generally and this is my opinion you tend to see a large amount of quality and service complaints around it with other SP's providing this service, I also don't believe they have the same reputation around Quality and service that we do, and while there will also be issues and faults with any network and yes we do have issues and complaints ourselves generally I believe you see in our service no real problems around service's just working, and really this is what you want in carrier grade network isn't it ?, you have to remember anyone can build a SIP device / PABX and deploy it but the proof is in the quality of the end to end product.

Now when you say at your risk thats fine to say now Wink but what would happen for example if you had a configured SIP device (you saw that cool looking Box in your last visit to Hong Kong) that actually had a slightly Malformed BYE packet due to the device having a . or : in the TO header in a slightly different place now this message is designed to hang up the call, if for example you phone a 0900 number to get the weather for the day and hung up the call this message came to us and the messgae was rejected due to this differnt header, we now have a call up to a 0900 number for say 3 hours, 3 Hours x $5.99 or more a minute you now have a $1000 phone call, we as a company will get charged for this and we will charge you for it....how does that sit now Laughing, so what we have said in our reasoning for contrlling devices and configs is that if we control it we also control the responsibility of the call flow and accept responsibility of it.



I could go on for hours on this, perhaps I need to do a webinar or public speech somewhere and let all the questions come at once Laughing hope this helps you to understand our reasoning.




EDIT PS...
and I'm sure Phil and I could discuss the pros and cons of that particular spot, and we would respect each other's view, and get on with life

I do indead I actually enjoy these constructive conservations and discussions as I am pretty passionate about open standards and how it applies to the Network service and Quality.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 95636 17-Nov-2007 09:28
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"I've had VFX for about three months, and twice I've noticed the phone has gone dead for a few minutes, because our Telstra broadband went down."

3 words Steve, Call Forward Unreachable Laughing, you put in the Number you Like and when the device goes offline with 2 minutes it will automatically forward to that number .....I love this service




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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  Reply # 95639 17-Nov-2007 09:33
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SteveC:
maverick:
tonyhughes: This is not a retrospective 'doh' on my part - but I was just wondering if getting the Asterisk capability on my VFX line then kills off my ability to connect via the PAP2T ?

I dont of course expect them to register concurrently with Asterisk, but yeah... you see where Im coming from?
Yep that device is now gone from the VFX network Tony, it can no longer connect and will blank itself once conntected to a network
I'm not sure I understand this reply. Are you saying that once I sign up for Asterisk, I can no longer use my PAP2T? Makes it very critical that I get the Asterisk setup right first time ... no going back. At least I can plug the PSP2T into my Asterisk box!Tongue out

Have I understood this right?

Steve11


What happens is that no 2 devices can be on the Network at the same time with the same number, there will be a service for this in a later date, called Shared line call apperance but its not here yet.

If you have a current VFX device with us and swap to Asterisk there are differnt profiles and setups that are required in our system, to that end the original Linksys device is removed and replaced with the Asterisk profile as you are bascially moving your line to Asterisk.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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  Reply # 95647 17-Nov-2007 10:05
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maverick: I do indead I actually enjoy these constructive conservations and discussions as I am pretty passionate about open standards and how it applies to the Network service and Quality.
Have you looked at hosting a Wireless Wednesday wirelessforum.org.nz or After 5s www.tuanz.org.nz?.
I really should set up that "Call Forward Unreachable" service - saw it in another forum, but I'm supposed to working on my thesis, and I have so few problems with VFX that it is not a priority!  Spent too long in this forum already today - used up all my 'non-thesis time' for the dayFrown.
In summary - yes, VFX offers an excellent 'replacment PSTN' solution, particularly with Telstra cable, and I'm very happy with that at home.  Would love to chat some time about what you think I should include in my VoIP course next year!
Cheers Phil!
Steve



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  Reply # 95860 19-Nov-2007 08:28
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It's Monday Ladies and gents, Asterisk signups now available -So Feel free to ring in all you astersik people, looking forward to seeing you on our service.

Will be interested myself to see how how many Astersik geeks there are out there ......we will see shortly Wink




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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  Reply # 95961 19-Nov-2007 16:54
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Hey Guys,

Tried to call the support desk today. They didn't appear to know anything about an Asterisk device. She didn't know what I was talking about and asked me if I wanted to signup with WxC. I explained to her that I am an existing customer and that I wanted to switch my access device from a pap2t to an asterisk box. She attempted to transfered me to tech support but cut me off instead. I called back in and was told that yes it can be done but the sales mgr was away sick and I would have to wait until he got back, maybe tomorrow.

Can anyone help ...

Steve.



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  Reply # 95982 19-Nov-2007 18:13
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Apologies for this, this should not have happened at all and a little upset that you recieved this info, if this happens again tomorrow ask them to put you through to me directly and I will set them straight, The sales manager was away today but I had checked with her on Friday and she had briefed her team, we have obviuosly dropped the ball here, So if I could ask you to phone in again tomorrow and if you get  the same problem please ask to be put through to me.

Phil Moore
Operations Manager
WorldxChange Communications




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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  Reply # 95983 19-Nov-2007 18:14
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Just revived my old Compaq iPaq (the desktop model, not the handheld) so I can play around with it next week when I have time off :)

Quick question though; As mentioned above, this means that we can't use the PAP-2T to connect to the VFX network, however, would I be correct in assuming that I would be able to reconnect the device to WxC (and disconnect the asterisk one) should someone find out (and disapprove) that I'm fiddling with things again?




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  Reply # 95985 19-Nov-2007 18:25
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munchkin: Just revived my old Compaq iPaq (the desktop model, not the handheld) so I can play around with it next week when I have time off :)

Quick question though; As mentioned above, this means that we can't use the PAP-2T to connect to the VFX network, however, would I be correct in assuming that I would be able to reconnect the device to WxC (and disconnect the asterisk one) should someone find out (and disapprove) that I'm fiddling with things again?



The details will be different, the pa2t will not have a working config from us on it so will not connect, 2 devices can not exist at the same timewith the same details




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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  Reply # 95990 19-Nov-2007 18:45
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Oh, sorry, I should have made that clearer, I know that two devices can't share the same details :) - I mean will I be able to ring the wonderful support team to re-provision the PAP-2T (thereby rendering the Asterisk box 'dead'), if I needed to?




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  Reply # 95991 19-Nov-2007 18:53
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maverick: Apologies for this, this should not have happened at all and a little upset that you recieved this info, if this happens again tomorrow ask them to put you through to me directly and I will set them straight, The sales manager was away today but I had checked with her on Friday and she had briefed her team, we have obviuosly dropped the ball here, So if I could ask you to phone in again tomorrow and if you get  the same problem please ask to be put through to me.

Phil Moore
Operations Manager
WorldxChange Communications


Cool. Thanks Phil.
Will call tomorrow.



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  Reply # 95994 19-Nov-2007 19:01
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munchkin: Oh, sorry, I should have made that clearer, I know that two devices can't share the same details :) - I mean will I be able to ring the wonderful support team to re-provision the PAP-2T (thereby rendering the Asterisk box 'dead'), if I needed to?



Yes most certainly , should be no problem at all Laughing




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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  Reply # 96029 19-Nov-2007 23:58
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camo786: This leads to some other questions

Now that you can use VFX with Asterisk, will you be able to use VFX with Epygi?

The WXC web site does not explain that, although Epygi is supported, its only for DVX trunks

Actually there is very little on the WxC web site about DVX

Are WxC worried about smaller commercial customers using VFX rather than DVX?


The reason why DVX isn't mentioned heavily on the WxC website is it's only available through dealers.  WxC isn't interested in pushing this product to businesses, hence why they use the dealer channel.

Why would you use VFX when DVX is available?

If you are using a (Epygi) Quadro at home, I don't see why WxC wouldn't let you use VFX, though I'm sure Phil can clarify this. 




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  Reply # 96054 20-Nov-2007 11:39
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arataki:
maverick: Apologies for this, this should not have happened at all and a little upset that you recieved this info, if this happens again tomorrow ask them to put you through to me directly and I will set them straight, The sales manager was away today but I had checked with her on Friday and she had briefed her team, we have obviuosly dropped the ball here, So if I could ask you to phone in again tomorrow and if you get  the same problem please ask to be put through to me.

Phil Moore
Operations Manager
WorldxChange Communications


Cool. Thanks Phil.
Will call tomorrow.


Hey Guys,

Just wanted to check. Does it really take 2 days to switch profiles?
Called in today and all good, they knew what I was talking about, but that it would take 2 days to commission.
Call me padantic Laughing but 2 days seems a long time to do a profile change from one device type to another.
That's Telecom timeframes.

Steve.

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