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872 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1376096 29-Aug-2015 13:26
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No doubt they been helpful. And if the modem they supplied works sweet then it's a problem with a third party product. I am not disputing that. In this instance the service has been acceptable and if the customer wants to use a third party product they can do it themselves or pay for some support. I was referring to the service aspect. If you are not happy you can vote with your feet.







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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1376503 30-Aug-2015 17:58
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Oh my new fridge that I purchased from the US doesn't work properly since it needs a different power supply. Better complain to my power company to get them to fix it and supply me a 110V supply. I'm paying good money for electricity into my house, it's up to my power supplier to ensure everything in my house works and for them to fix it if it doesn't. How is this any different to the Internet?


Again, I say I'd rather keep this thread focused on the perplexing technical issue, without side tracking into a philosophical debate around who should support what.  However, it's worth pointing out that your analogy isn't quite right.  My issue isn't one of buying third party gear and not being able to get it to work on Vodafone.  In my case (as I've stated a number of times), the third party gear did work perfectly on Vodafone for 3 years.  However, for some reason, it stopped on 1 July - and it's that technical issue some of us have been trying to solve.

And again I'm not complaining about Vodafone service as you imply.  They've been good.  I did make a negative comment about the time spent on hold for phone support - but I would have had that time even if I was ringing about my Vodafone supplied kit.  I think that's a reasonable frustration.  A lot of other people seem to agree.

Let's be clear, I'm not forcing Vodafone to support this problem.  They told me that they didn't want me to cancel my account and wanted to help solve the issue.  I appreciate that.  If at any point they say that they can't or won't help, then that's fine.  I'm not going to complain as I have other options in a competitive market.  But that's not what they've said.  

So although the moral advice is interesting, I'd rather focus on the technical problem.



 
 
 
 




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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1376504 30-Aug-2015 18:01
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Aredwood: If you on purpose enter a wrong password into the Vodafone routers. Does that stop them from working?


In short, yes.  I changed the PWD and it immediately lost the connection.  So with the Vodafone kit, it is checking the credentials in the authentication.  



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1376509 30-Aug-2015 18:08
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Earbanean:
trig42: Sounds like you have done all the troubleshooting steps that you can reasonably take. The Radius logs would be helpful to help you.


The plan is this evening I'll be able to coordinate someone from Vodafone checking the Radius logs at the same time as I have the Draytek modem set up (thanks @Demeter).  Hopefully that will tell a story.


Well, we did the test on Friday evening and unfortunately the problem isn't solved.  Basically, on the Vodafone side, they didn't see any authentication request hit their server.  It just didn't get that far.  

So it looks like while the line has good ADSL sync, for some reason the PPP authentication request isn't getting to the Vodafone server.  To be honest, that's completely stumped me.

I kind of think this now probably goes into the unsolved 'X-Files', unless anyone else has some other idea.  Thanks to everyone who tried to crack it.  I appreciate the help.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1376523 30-Aug-2015 18:37
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Did you confirm Chorus or Red network connection?

cisconz
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  Reply # 1376802 31-Aug-2015 08:16
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I would be trying Bridging with PPPoE before giving up.




Hmmmm



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1376817 31-Aug-2015 08:51
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RunningMan: Did you confirm Chorus or Red network connection?


Red Network.

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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1377484 1-Sep-2015 04:06
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No sure how NZ network works, as I am working for iiNet AUS. 

But after all the test, shouldn't vodafone lodge a trouble ticket to their Developers to take a authentication credential from the back end. 

All end all, if you tested a different modem and it is not working, and the modem is fine, then they are hardly anything that customer can do. 



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1377508 1-Sep-2015 07:56
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SonofLiverpool: No sure how NZ network works, as I am working for iiNet AUS. 

But after all the test, shouldn't Vodafone lodge a trouble ticket to their Developers to take a authentication credential from the back end. 

All end all, if you tested a different modem and it is not working, and the modem is fine, then they are hardly anything that customer can do. 




Struggling to make sense of what this sentience above means.

If the customer puts their own router on their dsl line and it does not send an authentication request for whatever reason there is nothing whatsoever the ISP can do to help further apart from telling the customer there is no authentication attempt. While it is very easy as an end user to expect their ISP to support whatever piece of equipment they want to connect this is not a technically or economically viable position for a service provider to take.  In this case, yes it is a popular brand that has been working and should work, but that is part of the risk you take when you put your own router on a line, if it works great, if it doesn't well then that's up to you to fix. Kind of like putting third party ink cartridges in your printer, if it breaks don't expect your printer manufacturer to fix the issue as you are off doing your own thing and thats the risk you have accepted.



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1377523 1-Sep-2015 08:54
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There has been the odd mention and implication (not by the OP) that part of this is about having customers use VF's supplied modem. I just want to bring to the forefront of people's minds that this is a case of one type of modem having been identified as not working not all, many or even some modems except VF's.

OP has repeatedly made the point he wants to focus on finding a solution. Trying to identify and fix the issue is an interesting and worthwhile endeavor for all parties involved, OP, VF and us. Apart from solving OP's problem it may help solve future people's problems. Even if the only solution we can come up with is that that particular modem won't work in that particular situation.






Please note: I have a professional bias towards Vodafone.

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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1377723 1-Sep-2015 12:46
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noroad:
SonofLiverpool: No sure how NZ network works, as I am working for iiNet AUS. 

But after all the test, shouldn't Vodafone lodge a trouble ticket to their Developers to take a authentication credential from the back end. 

All end all, if you tested a different modem and it is not working, and the modem is fine, then they are hardly anything that customer can do. 




Struggling to make sense of what this sentience above means.

If the customer puts their own router on their dsl line and it does not send an authentication request for whatever reason there is nothing whatsoever the ISP can do to help further apart from telling the customer there is no authentication attempt. While it is very easy as an end user to expect their ISP to support whatever piece of equipment they want to connect this is not a technically or economically viable position for a service provider to take.  In this case, yes it is a popular brand that has been working and should work, but that is part of the risk you take when you put your own router on a line, if it works great, if it doesn't well then that's up to you to fix. Kind of like putting third party ink cartridges in your printer, if it breaks don't expect your printer manufacturer to fix the issue as you are off doing your own thing and thats the risk you have accepted.




Sorry, was too early in the morning and I was having trouble go to sleep. Had a look at what I wrote, doesn't even make any sense.

Vodafone only need to make sure their equipment is working on, if the Vodafone modem is working then their job is done.





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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1378238 2-Sep-2015 13:33
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So I think where the technical issue now finds itself is:  The modem is getting ADSL sync, but it's PPP authentication request is either not getting to the Vodafone server, or the the Vodafone server is not recognising it for some reason.  As I said earlier, that leaves me pretty much stumped, unless anyone has any further ideas.  

I can't really see any way forward on this now, unless there was some way of tracing the authentication request from the exchange to see where it goes, or what happens to it.  Does anyone know of any feasible way of doing that?

Failing that, I think really we're done.

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  Reply # 1378248 2-Sep-2015 13:48
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Earbanean: So I think where the technical issue now finds itself is:  The modem is getting ADSL sync, but it's PPP authentication request is either not getting to the Vodafone server, or the the Vodafone server is not recognising it for some reason.  As I said earlier, that leaves me pretty much stumped, unless anyone has any further ideas.  

I can't really see any way forward on this now, unless there was some way of tracing the authentication request from the exchange to see where it goes, or what happens to it.  Does anyone know of any feasible way of doing that?

Failing that, I think really we're done.


You really need to be capturing the PPP packets which is easy to do with not with the hardware you have. (A Mikrotik would make this super easy). Once you've done that you can look at the PPPoE packets starting with the PADI ones to see that your end is sending, and waht's being received.



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  Reply # 1378286 2-Sep-2015 14:27
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Earbanean: I can't really see any way forward on this now, unless there was some way of tracing the authentication request from the exchange to see where it goes, or what happens to it.  Does anyone know of any feasible way of doing that?

Failing that, I think really we're done.


If someone at Vodafone is keen to get to the bottom of this I suspect the next step would be to set up your modem in their test lab.

I suspect this is unlikely and you're now faced with either using a different modem or a different ISP.

It is good of the Vodafone people involved to date to spend time looking at the back end to see what may be happening.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1378373 2-Sep-2015 15:37
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Traditionally in the ADSL1 days, if PPP did not come up and there no sign of authentication, then it would be considered an ATM/PVC fault and you would lodge a request to rebuild the port. 

The part that has me stumped is how the Vodafone modem is connecting. I understand that the later Vodafone modems use CWMP/TR-069 to configure the modem including username and password based on serial number and some threads here also mention that is also linked to the usage meter but there shouldn't be a reason why standard ADSL shouldn't work when configured for PPPoA VC-Mux on 0/100, most providers these days redirect to a captive portal if authentication is mandatory.


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