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sloth

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  #102447 1-Jan-2008 08:38
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Cafeg - great post! You've explained exactly the same issues I was having, and seem to have got the same responses from VF.

Well I managed to connect to VFAU for about 2 hours on 30th Dec, so got loads of SMS through - after that it lost connection again though. Back in NZ again today so obviously all back to normal.

FYI I have had some other strange issues while there was no service:
- dialling the international voicemail number to retrieve my voicemail most of the time I got "that number is not listed"
- dialling my own number I'd get anything from beep-beep-beep to "that number is not listed" and even other people entirely!! Surprised

Apart from that brief bit of service on the 30th, I had 7 days with nothing at all. Next time I'll be getting an Aussie SIM.

Not the service I'd come to expect from Vodafone. Frown

cafeg
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  #102525 2-Jan-2008 01:12
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Thanks, I thought quite a few people here woud be a few having exactly the same problems..

Its 10.05pm on the 1st January and still no roaming service here in Brisbane.

8 days now without any connection at all :-(

We are going back to NZ this saturday so I guess thats the next time our phones will be working..



c3rn
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  #102566 2-Jan-2008 16:23
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@ cafeg and sloth


What part of Paul's post do you not understand? Your issues are seperate to what Vodafone is saying the issue is. The only known issue is that there is/was congestion. If you call 777 and speak to someone they will probably assume that this is what is causing your problems when in fact it isn't.

Remember, it may be past Xmas and New Years but guess what will happen when people's cell phone's start working again? Everyone will go nuts texting and calling since they have been without a ph for a few days which no doubt will over load the system and we'll all be back to square one.

It looks as if everyone will just have to ride this out. I don't see any reason why VF should have to compensate you when it wasn't their fault? (see post bout optus).





PenultimateHop
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  #102569 2-Jan-2008 17:34
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brad_p:
It looks as if everyone will just have to ride this out. I don't see any reason why VF should have to compensate you when it wasn't their fault? (see post bout optus).
That seems quite ridiculous.  If I am a non-technical user who doesn't understand the background to the problem, my phone simply does not work.  I have a contract for service with Vodafone, not with Optus.  If Vodafone is failing to meet my service requirements or agreement, I should be compensated.  Vodafone should manage their relationship with their suppliers, and manage their network capacity requirements, properly.  Passing the buck to a supplier is ridiculous for a company the size of VF.

cranz
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  #102572 2-Jan-2008 17:48

I'm sure like most communication services Vodafone's T&C state that this is best effort, you can not guarantee service 100% of the time when it comes to technology.

I thought we established a few pages ago this was an issue on VFAU's end, not VFNZ.

Did any of you try and use Telstra/Optus to roam in AU? I know plenty of people who were fine using Telstra. Thats one of the benefits of putting yourself on VF Traveller, same charge no matter what network

PenultimateHop
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  #102573 2-Jan-2008 17:59
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cranz: I'm sure like most communication services Vodafone's T&C state that this is best effort, you can not guarantee service 100% of the time when it comes to technology.
Yes, I'm sure their T&Cs state that it is best effort and that any failures aren't their responsibility etc, although I think that is a pretty weak excuse.

100%, no, but you can get close to it. Assuming no roaming service since Christmas Day, Vodafone's roaming service has now had an availability of 97.8% over a year, or 73.3% over a month. That is shockingly poor.



c3rn
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  #102574 2-Jan-2008 18:00
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PenultimateHop: That seems quite ridiculous.  If I am a non-technical user who doesn't understand the background to the problem, my phone simply does not work.  I have a contract for service with Vodafone, not with Optus.  If Vodafone is failing to meet my service requirements or agreement, I should be compensated.  Vodafone should manage their relationship with their suppliers, and manage their network capacity requirements, properly.  Passing the buck to a supplier is ridiculous for a company the size of VF.


Not rediculous at all. As cranz pointed out above, there T&Cs cover such events as this so they don't need to compensate. Put yourself in VF's shoes - they would want people to be using roaming becuase they make money off this. Surely they are just as eager as everyone else is to get this resolved. It is really frustrating for company's when their suppliers let them down and they have to face the negative percepetion on their company. It has nothing to do with the relationships they have with their suppliers.

As cranz also said, VF Traveller would resolve this problem wouldn't it? Just change networks.

c3rn
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  #102575 2-Jan-2008 18:02
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PenultimateHop: Yes, I'm sure their T&Cs state that it is best effort and that any failures aren't their responsibility etc, although I think that is a pretty weak excuse.

100%, no, but you can get close to it. Assuming no roaming service since Christmas Day, Vodafone's roaming service has now had an availability of 97.8% over a year, or 73.3% over a month. That is shockingly poor.


Well if you took the percentage of days roaming has working vs. the days it hasn't since VF started in NZ i'm sure you would find the percentages a bit different.

cokemaster
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  #102577 2-Jan-2008 18:15
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brad_p:

Not rediculous at all. As cranz pointed out above, there T&Cs cover such events as this so they don't need to compensate. Put yourself in VF's shoes - they would want people to be using roaming becuase they make money off this.
...
It is really frustrating for company's when their suppliers let them down and they have to face the negative percepetion on their company. It has nothing to do with the relationships they have with their suppliers.


What I find disappointing is the lack of ownership exhibited. Playing the blame game to customers is never seen as good customer service, akin with certain wholesale providers who refer customers to Telecom retail for wholesale DSL issues (or even how to set up a broadband modem!).

Afterall, customers are paying Vodafone NZ for service and support. While suppliers failing to meet their committments cause issues, thats what back ups and service level agreements are for. Customers should not have to know or worry about what supplier Vodafone uses. Really, is it that hard for Vodafone NZ to own the issue for these Vodafone NZ customers?




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VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #102578 2-Jan-2008 18:18

Hi all,

an update from Vodafone Australia. They've seen international roaming traffic more than double the expected rate this year, in part due no doubt to cheap airfares over the Ditch.

The result is that the international links are saturated. Vodafone AU buys its international backhaul from Optus and there's no more available. It's not a matter of buying more, it's a matter of there not being any more for sale.

The problem affects Vodafone Australia customers roaming overseas and anyone roaming onto Vodafone Australia's network.

Vodafone NZ customers can switch to another Australian network and should be able to receive service on those (barring any issues those other networks are experiencing). The new roaming package offered by Vodafone NZ means that every network in Australia is treated the same from a billing perspective, so roaming onto one of the other networks won't cost Traveller roamers more than roaming on Vodafone Australia.

This is one of the issues David Cunliffe raised at the Digital Summit meeting late last year - international capacity is an economic bottleneck. The feedback I heard from other telcos at the Summit was that this was an issue that needed addressing.

Hope that helps clarify the situation.

Cheers

Paul

UPDATE: Just to clarify the clarification - I don't work for Vodafone Australia. These aren't Vodafone Australia official comments. I might update the signature file to reflect the NZ'dness of my job.

Cheers

Paul




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nzbnw
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#102579 2-Jan-2008 18:19
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brad_p:
Not rediculous at all. As cranz pointed out above, there T&Cs cover such events as this so they don't need to compensate. Put yourself in VF's shoes - they would want people to be using roaming becuase they make money off this. Surely they are just as eager as everyone else is to get this resolved. It is really frustrating for company's when their suppliers let them down and they have to face the negative percepetion on their company. It has nothing to do with the relationships they have with their suppliers.

As cranz also said, VF Traveller would resolve this problem wouldn't it? Just change networks.


I was going to stay out of this, but really, you should try putting yourself in the customer’s shoes. Roaming being down for 1 day is one thing, but over this period of time it can be considered a real inconvenience. And should customers have to change networks to try and get coverage? After all, I'm sure the more $$ wise customers are still getting use to the new Traveller (if opted into), and would by default choose Vodafone as there roaming provider.

T&C's or not, Vodafone NZ must own the issue (which would make a change from some ISPs), and be willing to put things right.

Passing the buck, is just not a good look. End of story.

nzbnw








nzbnw
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#102580 2-Jan-2008 18:23
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Cokemaster, you beat me to it. Well said.

nzbnw







PenultimateHop
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  #102582 2-Jan-2008 18:28
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Paul,

Can you tell us whether VFNZ enforces any kind of SLA on their roaming partners? In most voice interconnect and IP interconnect relationships between major carriers there are definite SLAs, so I'd like to hear what's happening with these and what VFAU is planning on doing to rectify the issue (and perhaps for VFNZ to ensure there's adequate capacity)...

Cokemaster, nzbnw, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments! Passing the buck or using contractual smallprint to (try) pass the issue off is a poor show. 

From my personal perspective, having been stranded when roaming has failed me (in several countries, with several different carriers), this would just blow my mind and make me change carrier.  8+ days with no roaming service would destroy my ability to work effectively. It was bad enough not having it for 4 days in Italy in 2003.

cranz
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  #102583 2-Jan-2008 18:31

VFNZ has more than one roaming partner in Australia, maybe the CSR's should have told people to try this instead of saying "You should know its congestion" but from my POV (my customer POV) there was more than 1 option to get around VFAU's issues.

You're right about what's happening behind the scenes, customers don't care, they just want to use their phone and if it doesn't work they expect their service provider (VFNZ) to help rectify this - obviously all of the options weren't put on the table in this instance..  

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