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637 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 102762 3-Jan-2008 17:58
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BlakJak:

If the calls didn't touch NZ systems, Voda NZ would have fun trying to charge for the call. :-)
Inversely, someone calling your NZ Mobile number will find their call routed to the switch equipment in NZ, which then has to realise you're infact roaming and redirect the call to the network currently hosting your phone. So being able to 'talk home' is pretty important.
This is not quite correct.  Once you have registered (roaming network VLR, home network HLR), there is no signalling happening for a local call.  Billing is delayed off-line.

VFNZ would not see a signal about a local call in progress.

For inbound roaming, you are correct, although some operators in some countries allow for non-tromboning roaming calls by dialing a prefix which will trigger a lookup in the VLR for the subscriber.

[nb. This assumes an SS7 based network, not an IMS/IP based network.  You could, as someone else mentioned, transport your SS7 signalling over SIGTRAN as well.  I wonder if the problem has been that VFAU/VFNZ did not turn up sufficient TDM links for signalling traffic, although I'm curious how roaming relationships and signalling is actually managed.  Is there something like the old "GPRS Internet Exchange" for it?]

1 post

Wannabe Geek


Reply # 102763 3-Jan-2008 18:13
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Hi

Been in Coffs Harbour since the 22nd Dec and have had no roaming on VFNZ till 2 Jan, I ended up buying a $10 phone card which gave me 4 hours of calls back to NZ @ 7c a minute.

Thanks Vodafone you have saved me heaps

 
 
 
 


663 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 102766 3-Jan-2008 18:40
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PenultimateHop:
BlakJak:

If the calls didn't touch NZ systems, Voda NZ would have fun trying to charge for the call. :-)
Inversely, someone calling your NZ Mobile number will find their call routed to the switch equipment in NZ, which then has to realise you're infact roaming and redirect the call to the network currently hosting your phone. So being able to 'talk home' is pretty important.
This is not quite correct. Once you have registered (roaming network VLR, home network HLR), there is no signalling happening for a local call. Billing is delayed off-line.

VFNZ would not see a signal about a local call in progress.


Thanks. That actually makes perfect sense.  Of course if you are not able to register (and I assume this'd have to happen at least once per session?  Or is the network smart enough to remember you for a period?  Often wondered about this...) then you'd be pretty screwed as per current situ I guess.

BJ.   




696 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 102768 3-Jan-2008 19:01
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zocster: Services        2G & 3G Voice, Data & Video Calls      
Area Affect     Vodafone Australia     
Outage Start Time       03/01/2008 07:00       
Expected Time to Restore (ETR)  No ETR 
Problem Description     Connection to the Network is lost at Vodafone Australia and effects Vodafone New Zealand and Vodafone Fiji.

Update 5: The Problem is now only with provisioning and not with voice traffic as stated before. Techs still investigating the issue.  
               
Restoration Time        03/01/2008 12:10       
Resolution Information  Secondry Firewall Implemented which fixed the whole problem and everything is now back up and working.

It should be fixed sometime today one would hope by the sound of this last one.



And yes its back up again here in brisbane when I took my mobile out of flight mode early this afternoon..

I certainly hope it wasn't due to someone changing the firewall then going home for xmas

But it certainly sounds like that as no authentication to the VFNZ network as the firewall was blocking would explain a lot ...

675 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Reply # 102769 3-Jan-2008 19:05

The outage notifications that zocster posted regarding the firewall were not related to the roaming issues being experienced on VFAU's network, this was something completely different

See Paul's post on page #8 

edit: or below..

970 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Vodafone

  Reply # 102770 3-Jan-2008 19:07

To repeat myself:

The firewall issues is a RED HERRING. It has nothing to do with Vodafone Australia's capacity issue.

The firewall issue related to something entirely different; it lasted for only a few hours; it should not be confused with the Vodafone Australia international capacity issue because it is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

The firewall issue was Vodafone NZ only and related to our Siebel system and how data billing was handled. It certainly didn't have anything to do with the current thread which is roaming in Australia. It had nothing to do with it.

To reiterate: nothing. to. do. with. it.

OK?

Paul




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


970 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Vodafone

  Reply # 102771 3-Jan-2008 19:14

cranz: The outage notifications that zocster posted regarding the firewall were not related to the roaming issues being experienced on VFAU's network, this was something completely different

See Paul's post on page #8

edit: or below..


I thank you.

And now, dinner time. The Sauvignon Blanc is calling, oh it's calling me. Wink




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


IC

2 posts

Wannabe Geek


Reply # 102776 3-Jan-2008 20:05
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Very good ... great for business and none of you have clicked to who's making the money here.

Phone companies pay up front per year for band-width and then sell on to you the user.

That bandwidth varies in price throughout the year ... some times the bandwidth costs more than others.

For example I'm willing to bet christmas time costs them way more that mid winter, but to you the user it costs the same all the time ... it's the "deal" they offer to get you.

It would save a phone company thousands of $$ to have their bandwidth not used over high cost times.

I read above that this company offered someone "$30" per phone ... this is betting big time on only paying out to a small handfull of people ... because I'm also willing to bet that there are naff all people with the spine to actually force the collection of this compensation ... this admitted failure of their system ... this damage to you the user ... and I'm willing to bet they will try to "credit" that $30 to your phone account ... correct ???

Therefore they merely shifted a very high cost item "to them" to a very low cost item and you sucked for it.

Now who's winning on this deal??

No take cash ... not credit ... and as they "offered" $30 ... go for $100 and make sure your friends do it as well and you'll find they don't pull this crud again.

I only found this out because an Australian is staying at my farm stay and he drew my attention to it and I did a bit of research to find out what's going on.

Just before I depart ... having never seen this site before but joined for this post only ... how many of you are boneless and will do nothing about it ... how many will allow this theft thinking there's nothing they can do ... AND HOW MANY WILL ACTUALLY GROW A SPINE AND DO SOMETHING??

Signed
www.iron-clay.com

255 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 16


  Reply # 102779 3-Jan-2008 20:26
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How can VF be making money when their customers are not using their phones??! As I said in a previous post, Im sure VF want this problem fixed ASAP so their customers can use their phones and generate some money for them.

637 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 102788 3-Jan-2008 21:00
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IC: Very good ... great for business and none of you have clicked to who's making the money here.



Phone companies pay up front per year for band-width and then sell on to you the user.



That bandwidth varies in price throughout the year ... some times the bandwidth costs more than others.



For example I'm willing to bet christmas time costs them way more that mid winter, but to you the user it costs the same all the time ... it's the "deal" they offer to get you.



It would save a phone company thousands of $$ to have their bandwidth not used over high cost times.

I'm loathe to feed the troll, but I want people who read this thread to be clear:

Bandwidth, in the terms that telcos purchase it, is a fixed cost on a monthly (e.g. TDM circuit rental) or annual basis (e.g. submarine IRU).  It does not cost any more, or any less, at any specific times.  There are costs in carrying enough bandwidth in a network to service an absolute peak, because the excess capacity is only used once or twice per year, such as Christmas or NYE.

Most telcos will build their network to support an average peak, with congestion management at absolute peak.

1785 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 35

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  Reply # 102799 3-Jan-2008 21:49
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PaulBrislen: To repeat myself:

The firewall issues is a RED HERRING. It has nothing to do with Vodafone Australia's capacity issue.

The firewall issue related to something entirely different; it lasted for only a few hours; it should not be confused with the Vodafone Australia international capacity issue because it is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

The firewall issue was Vodafone NZ only and related to our Siebel system and how data billing was handled. It certainly didn't have anything to do with the current thread which is roaming in Australia. It had nothing to do with it.

To reiterate: nothing. to. do. with. it.

OK?

Paul


Right folks, listen to the man, I should have not posted something I know nothing about. Again sorry Paul, did you enjoy your dinner? I am faithful to Vodafone to the end, hope you will not be beaten by the new Telecom GSM offering .. off the topic I know.

970 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Vodafone

  Reply # 102802 3-Jan-2008 22:03

zocster:
PaulBrislen: To repeat myself:

The firewall issues is a RED HERRING. It has nothing to do with Vodafone Australia's capacity issue.

The firewall issue related to something entirely different; it lasted for only a few hours; it should not be confused with the Vodafone Australia international capacity issue because it is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

The firewall issue was Vodafone NZ only and related to our Siebel system and how data billing was handled. It certainly didn't have anything to do with the current thread which is roaming in Australia. It had nothing to do with it.

To reiterate: nothing. to. do. with. it.

OK?

Paul


Right folks, listen to the man, I should have not posted something I know nothing about. Again sorry Paul, did you enjoy your dinner? I am faithful to Vodafone to the end, hope you will not be beaten by the new Telecom GSM offering .. off the topic I know.



Resistance is futile!

The SB was good, I'm on holiday and I'm six episodes in to the third season of Battlestar Gallactica. Can life get any better than this?

Oh wait, I could stop posting to GZ and go back and watch what happens to Bulldog and how a human came to be flying a Cylon ship. Heh.

Nerd credentials established. I shall now reverse the polarity.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


675 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 102830 4-Jan-2008 08:09

cafeg:
And yes its back up again here in brisbane when I took my mobile out of flight mode early this afternoon..


correct, service has been restored, friends in gold coast and melbourne saying all is ok

edit: sentance structure.. need coffee!

IC

2 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 102833 4-Jan-2008 08:34
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PenultimateHop:
IC: Very good ... great for business and none of you have clicked to who's making the money here.



Phone companies pay up front per year for band-width and then sell on to you the user.



That bandwidth varies in price throughout the year ... some times the bandwidth costs more than others.



For example I'm willing to bet christmas time costs them way more that mid winter, but to you the user it costs the same all the time ... it's the "deal" they offer to get you.



It would save a phone company thousands of $$ to have their bandwidth not used over high cost times.

I'm loathe to feed the troll, but I want people who read this thread to be clear:

Bandwidth, in the terms that telcos purchase it, is a fixed cost on a monthly (e.g. TDM circuit rental) or annual basis (e.g. submarine IRU).? It does not cost any more, or any less, at any specific times.? There are costs in carrying enough bandwidth in a network to service an absolute peak, because the excess capacity is only used once or twice per year, such as Christmas or NYE.

Most telcos will build their network to support an average peak, with congestion management at absolute peak.


PenultimateHop

RE: I'm loathe to feed the troll ... you sound like a real company TROLL ... I bet you even do the purchasing for the phone company ??

Reality is those rates are NOT FLAT as you claim but the company flattens them for you the user and this company saw a
window of opportunity to make a killing and now you step in to confuse the issue.

All one has to do is look at phone companies billings and specials over a year to see that there are different rates at different times.

This is a "accounting ripoff" and no one lower than top staff would have any idea as to what has happened.

I suggest those with a spine address the issue with the Commerce Commission and allow them to take the lid off this can of puss.

A letter to your local Commerce Commission and CC to the company will I'm sure bring the attention to the company and it's more than likely they will approach you to settle out of court.

Let those with the commercial power to (Commerce Commission) discover what rates are available at what time.

Let those with the commercial power to (Commerce Commission) discover what private text and email between top staff in the company.

But don't let this PenultimateHop troll rob you of your spine.



Nate wants an iphone
3906 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 102839 4-Jan-2008 08:54
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IC:


PenultimateHop



RE: I'm loathe to feed the troll ... you sound like a real company TROLL ... I bet you even do the purchasing for the phone company ??



Reality is those rates are NOT FLAT as you claim but the company flattens them for you the user and this company saw a

window of opportunity to make a killing and now you step in to confuse the issue.



All one has to do is look at phone companies billings and specials over a year to see that there are different rates at different times.



This is a "accounting ripoff" and no one lower than top staff would have any idea as to what has happened.



I suggest those with a spine address the issue with the Commerce Commission and allow them to take the lid off this can of puss.



A letter to your local Commerce Commission and CC to the company will I'm sure bring the attention to the company and it's more than likely they will approach you to settle out of court.



Let those with the commercial power to (Commerce Commission) discover what rates are available at what time.



Let those with the commercial power to (Commerce Commission) discover what private text and email between top staff in the company.



But don't let this PenultimateHop troll rob you of your spine.







No, he wouldn't be the troll in this thread, since you are resorting to attacking the person rather than the argument. Whether or not PenultimateHop works for a telco - that doesn't matter. He could just be someone 'in the know'.

Vodafone in general (including NZ and AU) have a really, REALLY good reason to fix this. You see, roaming is quite a good money maker.

What happens when roaming doesn't work - you lose potential $$$ because people can't spend/use it. This is not about Vodafone trying to be cheap but possibly underestimating the impact of the Christmas/New Years roaming would have on their international capacity.

And besides, what is the Commerce commission going to do exactly? Vodafones terms and conditions spell it out quite clearly that it isn't a faultless service and when issues involve other operators - things don't move as smoothly as people want sometimes.




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