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Topic # 181406 14-Oct-2015 16:04
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As requested by Vodafone reps, this thread is about long delays apparently when resolving lookups to Google address and CDNs, e.g. cse.google.co.nz, cse.google.com, www.google-analytics, cdn.resignationmedia.com, i.crackedcdn.com, etc.  These delays happen for minutes at a time (longest I have seen is about 5 minutes) when navigating to websites that use services like these, e.g. geekzone.co.nz (cse.google.co.nz), stuff.co.nz (cse.google.com), and when it occurs it seems to affect all connections to these services until it clears.

I am located in Newlands, and have been using Chrome browser.  I am currently using third party DNS servers but these issues occur when using the Vodafone Cable DNS servers also.

The latest instance for me occurred at approximately 15:40 on 14/10:
- Accessing geekzone.co.nz, website loading stalled when resolving cse.google.co.nz.  I immediately opened stuff.co.nz in another browser window, with the same stalling on cse.google.com.
- Results of tracert to each of these gave similar results (note I've deliberately obscured my local IP in this post):

Tracing route to cse.google.co.nz [216.58.220.142]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms NAS [192.168.*.*]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 8 ms 9 ms 11 ms lo0.internet.ivpn.pe15.telstraclear.net [218.101.61.30]
4 30 ms 19 ms 16 ms ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.2]
5 19 ms 16 ms 16 ms ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.251]
6 18 ms 21 ms 19 ms gi2-20.akl-grafton-bdr1.ihug.net [203.109.130.41]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 41 ms 41 ms 42 ms UNASSIGNED.vf.net.nz [203.109.180.182]
9 40 ms 40 ms 40 ms 216.239.51.218
10 40 ms 40 ms 40 ms 216.239.46.151
11 43 ms 42 ms 42 ms syd09s01-in-f14.1e100.net [216.58.220.142]

Trace complete.


Tracing route to cse.google.com [216.58.220.142]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms NAS [192.168.*.*]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 10 ms 8 ms 8 ms lo0.internet.ivpn.pe15.telstraclear.net [218.101.61.30]
4 17 ms 19 ms 15 ms ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.2]
5 17 ms 16 ms 16 ms ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.251]
6 18 ms 16 ms 17 ms gi2-20.akl-grafton-bdr1.ihug.net [203.109.130.41]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 41 ms 41 ms 41 ms UNASSIGNED.vf.net.nz [203.109.180.182]
9 39 ms 40 ms 40 ms 216.239.51.218
10 41 ms 40 ms 40 ms 216.239.46.151
11 89 ms 41 ms 41 ms syd09s01-in-f14.1e100.net [216.58.220.142]

Trace complete.

Other than a couple of slightly longer errant pings nothing stand out to me here.

- While traces were running, both browser windows for geekzone.co.nz and stuff.co.nz sat in the background stalled while loading.
- Within 3-4 minutes of witnessing the initial issue, the websites finished loading.

Vodafone, please investigate the cause of this issue.  Other users in the congestion thread have reported the same issue happening for them.

Cheers


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  Reply # 1405787 14-Oct-2015 16:21
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I know it's slightly OT but out of curiosity what exactly is your reasoning for using 3rd party DNS servers? I realise there are clearly separate issues with cable right now and this isn't the issue.

I'm just curious because there is certainly a lot of CDN content that will be affected by the use of 3rd party servers.  Things are a lot better than they were a year or two ago when using 3rd party DNS servers was just a really crazy idea, but it's still always going to deliver a sub optimal user experience, even if it's just the slightly laggy browsing caused by the higher latency for DNS lookups.




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  Reply # 1405793 14-Oct-2015 16:54
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sbiddle: I know it's slightly OT but out of curiosity what exactly is your reasoning for using 3rd party DNS servers? I realise there are clearly separate issues with cable right now and this isn't the issue.

I'm just curious because there is certainly a lot of CDN content that will be affected by the use of 3rd party servers.  Things are a lot better than they were a year or two ago when using 3rd party DNS servers was just a really crazy idea, but it's still always going to deliver a sub optimal user experience, even if it's just the slightly laggy browsing caused by the higher latency for DNS lookups.



Third party DNS servers allow you to present your physical location as somewhere other than where you are.  This can be a benefit when websites tailor their services for different locations.

As for a sub-optimal experience, this isn't necessarily true.  For instance, the third party I use has a "smart DNS" service where only particular website services are directed through their servers that are located in a distinctly different geographical location; all regular internet use is directed through their New Zealand DNS server with no discernible impact on the user experience when compared to using (for instance) the Vodafone DNS server.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1405798 14-Oct-2015 17:00
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zaphodalive:
sbiddle: I know it's slightly OT but out of curiosity what exactly is your reasoning for using 3rd party DNS servers? I realise there are clearly separate issues with cable right now and this isn't the issue.

I'm just curious because there is certainly a lot of CDN content that will be affected by the use of 3rd party servers.  Things are a lot better than they were a year or two ago when using 3rd party DNS servers was just a really crazy idea, but it's still always going to deliver a sub optimal user experience, even if it's just the slightly laggy browsing caused by the higher latency for DNS lookups.



Third party DNS servers allow you to present your physical location as somewhere other than where you are.  This can be a benefit when websites tailor their services for different locations.

As for a sub-optimal experience, this isn't necessarily true.  For instance, the third party I use has a "smart DNS" service where only particular website services are directed through their servers that are located in a distinctly different geographical location; all regular internet use is directed through their New Zealand DNS server with no discernible impact on the user experience when compared to using (for instance) the Vodafone DNS server.



your routing to aus based google servers, rather than the ones within vodafones network..


Tracing route to cse.google.co.nz [203.118.143.224]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms pfsense.lanrouter [10.3.57.1]
2 7 ms 12 ms 27 ms 210.246.7.254
3 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 203-118-143-193.pppoe.ihug.co.nz [203.118.143.193]
4 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 203-118-143-224.pppoe.ihug.co.nz [203.118.143.224]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to cse.google.com [203.118.143.238]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms pfsense.lanrouter [10.3.57.1]
2 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms 210.246.7.254
3 8 ms 8 ms 7 ms 203-118-143-193.pppoe.ihug.co.nz [203.118.143.193]
4 9 ms 8 ms 7 ms 203-118-143-238.pppoe.ihug.co.nz [203.118.143.238]

Trace complete.



Given these are results from Vodafone DSL in auckland rather than cable, but with vodafones dns you would likely route to these servers too.




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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




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Geek
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  Reply # 1405825 14-Oct-2015 17:53
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hio77: your routing to aus based google servers, rather than the ones within vodafones network..


Tracing route to cse.google.co.nz [203.118.143.224]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms pfsense.lanrouter [10.3.57.1]
2 7 ms 12 ms 27 ms 210.246.7.254
3 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 203-118-143-193.pppoe.ihug.co.nz [203.118.143.193]
4 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 203-118-143-224.pppoe.ihug.co.nz [203.118.143.224]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to cse.google.com [203.118.143.238]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms pfsense.lanrouter [10.3.57.1]
2 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms 210.246.7.254
3 8 ms 8 ms 7 ms 203-118-143-193.pppoe.ihug.co.nz [203.118.143.193]
4 9 ms 8 ms 7 ms 203-118-143-238.pppoe.ihug.co.nz [203.118.143.238]

Trace complete.


Given these are results from Vodafone DSL in auckland rather than cable, but with vodafones dns you would likely route to these servers too.


My primary DNS is NZ based, secondary is Sydney based, but interestingly an IP lookup says the Google server's actually based in the US. *shrug*

However, I feel I should again note that the issue of the thread also occurs using Vodafone Cable DNS servers so this doesn't appear to be relevant.  I trust someone else experiencing the issue will chime in (looking at you guys freitasm, Scotty1986, Batwing, etc.).



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  Reply # 1405874 14-Oct-2015 18:55
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hio77: Given these are results from Vodafone DSL in auckland rather than cable, but with vodafones dns you would likely route to these servers too.


Hardly any Google services use DNS referrer as a discriminator for what Google cache serves you 'stuff'. It's pretty much up to the ISP to appropriately map their IP ranges to the CDNs in their network. If a match isn't made, then Google will have a guess at it, but often that will not be that close for a variety of reasons.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 1405904 14-Oct-2015 19:22
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Ok, I am not sure on how to do a lot of this stuff but here is a trace to cse.google.co.nz

At the moment I don't seem to have any performance issues while browsing.

I'm using Windows 10 and the New MS Edge browser. I'm in Woodridge/Newlands Wellington using 3rd Party DNS and at times Voda DNS.
When tracing to cse.google.com it stalls on hop 7 and does not seem to want to complete. Have been waiting for about 5-10mins so far. [EDIT, its now complete and updated]
I will leave it and update when/if it completes. cse.google.co.nz completes fine. I don't have much knowledge on this topic, all I know is that certain websites for me stall for long periods at some stages during the day. Next time I happens I will test again, and try different websites and dns servers.   

C:\Users\Scott>tracert cse.google.co.nz  
Tracing route to cse.google.co.nz [216.58.220.142]
over a maximum of 30 hops:    
1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.******

  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3    10 ms    13 ms     9 ms  lo0.internet.ivpn.pe15.telstraclear.net [218.101
.61.30]
  4    20 ms    17 ms    16 ms  ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.2]
  5    26 ms    18 ms    27 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.
50.251]
  6    18 ms    24 ms    18 ms  gi2-20.akl-grafton-bdr1.ihug.net [203.109.130.41
]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    42 ms    43 ms    41 ms  UNASSIGNED.vf.net.nz [203.109.180.182]
  9    42 ms    42 ms    42 ms  216.239.51.218
 10    57 ms    42 ms    42 ms  216.239.46.151
 11    70 ms    41 ms    40 ms  syd09s01-in-f14.1e100.net [216.58.220.142]   Trace complete


C:\Users\Scott>tracert cse.google.com   Tracing route to cse.google.com [216.58.220.142]
over a maximum of 30 hops:     1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.*******
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3    12 ms    13 ms    19 ms  lo0.internet.ivpn.pe15.telstraclear.net [218.101
.61.30]
  4    19 ms    18 ms    22 ms  ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.2]
  5    67 ms    25 ms    19 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.
50.251]
  6    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  gi2-20.akl-grafton-bdr1.ihug.net [203.109.130.41
]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    64 ms    46 ms    44 ms  UNASSIGNED.vf.net.nz [203.109.180.182]
  9    42 ms    43 ms    59 ms  216.239.51.218
 10    67 ms    44 ms    44 ms  216.239.46.151
 11    46 ms    40 ms    40 ms  syd09s01-in-f14.1e100.net [216.58.220.142]   Trace complete.   C:\Users\Scott>



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  Reply # 1405921 14-Oct-2015 20:03
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Tacert on a few things that hung for up to several minutes for me this evening - apologies for formatting, the end results never match the preview aka I suck at geekzone


Tracing route to platform.twitter.com [104.244.43.44] over a maximum of 30 hops:     1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  Gargoyle.lan [192.168.1.1]
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     9 ms    11 ms     8 ms  lo0.internet.ivpn.pe25.telstraclear.net [218.101.61.124]
  4    17 ms    26 ms    15 ms  ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.2]
  5    17 ms    24 ms    20 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.251]
  6    18 ms    16 ms    25 ms  be10-2.bgnzftc02.akl.vf.net.nz [203.109.130.41]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    41 ms    47 ms    42 ms  as13414.nsw.ix.asn.au [218.100.52.128]
  9    41 ms    39 ms    42 ms  104.244.43.44  
Trace complete.
 

Tracing route to www-google-analytics.l.google.com [216.58.220.142]
over a maximum of 30 hops:    1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  Gargoyle.lan [192.168.1.1]
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     9 ms    11 ms     8 ms  lo0.internet.ivpn.pe25.telstraclear.net [218.101.61.124]
  4    17 ms    17 ms    25 ms  ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.2]
  5    17 ms    17 ms    32 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.251]
  6    18 ms    18 ms    17 ms  be10-2.bgnzftc02.akl.vf.net.nz [203.109.130.41]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    40 ms    42 ms    41 ms  UNASSIGNED.vf.net.nz [203.109.180.182]
  9    41 ms    44 ms    42 ms  216.239.51.218
 10    42 ms    41 ms    41 ms  216.239.46.151
 11    40 ms    45 ms    41 ms  syd09s01-in-f142.1e100.net [216.58.220.142]  
Trace complete.  

tracert cdn1.xda-developers.com Tracing route to cs261.wac.taucdn.net [192.229.144.96] over a maximum of 30 hops:     1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  Gargoyle.lan [192.168.1.1]
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     8 ms     9 ms    14 ms  lo0.internet.ivpn.pe25.telstraclear.net [218.101.61.124]
  4    18 ms    16 ms    17 ms  ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.2]
  5    17 ms    17 ms    41 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.251]
  6    18 ms    25 ms    18 ms  be10-2.bgnzftc02.akl.vf.net.nz [203.109.130.41]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    42 ms    41 ms    42 ms  p15133.syd.equinix.com [202.167.228.91]
  9    42 ms    49 ms    41 ms  192.229.144.96  
Trace complete.

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  Reply # 1405945 14-Oct-2015 20:43
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For those google addresses (cse.google.com, cse.google.co.nz) Vodafone DNS will resolve to a Google CDN in VodafoneNZ and third party DNS in Australia will resolve to the Google CDN in Australia in your case in Sydney (30-40ms away). The same goes with the content served from Akamai (cdn.resignationmedia.com, i.crackedcdn.com) I suspect the stalling you experienced when you used Vodafone DNS was before the cable upgrades. Try changing to Vodafone DNS now and see if you still have issues.

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  Reply # 1405947 14-Oct-2015 20:47
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Im still getting slow access on thise links even if I use voda dns. Same issue if I use third party dns. I believe this is something to do with voda proxy for cable. My only resolution is to setup my own proxy server at home and works fine. No delay issue on those google sites

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  Reply # 1405953 14-Oct-2015 21:02
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Chrizvi: Im still getting slow access on thise links even if I use voda dns. Same issue if I use third party dns. I believe this is something to do with voda proxy for cable. My only resolution is to setup my own proxy server at home and works fine. No delay issue on those google sites


Can you PM me your location or better yet your customer account number.

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  Reply # 1405957 14-Oct-2015 21:06
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Chrizvi: Im still getting slow access on thise links even if I use voda dns. Same issue if I use third party dns. I believe this is something to do with voda proxy for cable. My only resolution is to setup my own proxy server at home and works fine. No delay issue on those google sites


But when you do a tracert to cse.google.co.nz is it pointing to the Google box inside Vodafone's network, or to Sydney?



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  Reply # 1405958 14-Oct-2015 21:08
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I was tempted to post a tracert on Snap just to see what JohnR said, but decided against it ;)

I've noticed similar behavior on a corporate connection at work, which goes through Vodafone. I can also do diagnostics if I notice it happening, if someone tells me what to do.




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  Reply # 1405979 14-Oct-2015 21:36
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timmmay: I was tempted to post a tracert on Snap just to see what JohnR said, but decided against it ;)

I've noticed similar behavior on a corporate connection at work, which goes through Vodafone. I can also do diagnostics if I notice it happening, if someone tells me what to do.


In the corp network there could be other factors  that can contribute such as internal corp DNS, blocked sites, etc. It might be best to escalate that with your IT department first, they may have their preferred rules set in place.

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  Reply # 1405986 14-Oct-2015 22:18
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timmmay: I was tempted to post a tracert on Snap just to see what JohnR said, but decided against it ;) .



lol





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  Reply # 1405987 14-Oct-2015 22:22
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and through out this post i have cant find the Vodafone dns servers the OP is using.

? what are you using out of interest For the Vodafone DNS ?





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