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  # 1423907 9-Nov-2015 17:36
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"Mate, You're dreaming!"

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  # 1424460 10-Nov-2015 15:35
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ermm am i reading this right, for cable, hrmm if so shweet im stuck without ufb for like another 3 years yet they did it across the road only 60 meters from my house, evil enable networks

 
 
 
 


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  # 1424462 10-Nov-2015 15:41
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dualznz: ermm am i reading this right, for cable, hrmm if so shweet im stuck without ufb for like another 3 years yet they did it across the road only 60 meters from my house, evil enable networks


That's the claim. DOCSIS3.1 for the former telstraclear network, which could support up to 1gbps down and 100mbps up. 

No prices or timetable, and you will almost certainly need new cable modems. But it's still a big deal for Voda to put this into public - if they don't do it, they'll look silly (bit like announcing 5G then saying 'Yea Nah we're going to take an MVNO from Spark instead').






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  # 1424505 10-Nov-2015 16:27
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antoniosk: ... almost certainly need new cable modems...


Yeah... about those...




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  # 1424511 10-Nov-2015 16:42
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Looks like they are working with Huawei for the upgrade

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  # 1424530 10-Nov-2015 16:58
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DjShadow: Looks like they are working with Huawei for the upgrade


but that could be just the core network hardware, not the end user stuff, we dont know the details on that yet

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  # 1424733 10-Nov-2015 21:22
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According to the Chorus site, my area Khandallah gets UFB up to 200Mbs mid 2016. So I can compare that with the 1Gb that Vodafone is offering at the same time. The UFB probably won't be Vodafone of course.




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  # 1424734 10-Nov-2015 21:27
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lchiu7: According to the Chorus site, my area Khandallah gets UFB up to 200Mbs mid 2016. So I can compare that with the 1Gb that Vodafone is offering at the same time. The UFB probably won't be Vodafone of course.


If you can get cable then Vodafone won't sell you UFB, so more than 'probably' :)





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  # 1426064 11-Nov-2015 11:27
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antoniosk:
dualznz: ermm am i reading this right, for cable, hrmm if so shweet im stuck without ufb for like another 3 years yet they did it across the road only 60 meters from my house, evil enable networks


That's the claim. DOCSIS3.1 for the former telstraclear network, which could support up to 1gbps down and 100mbps up. 

No prices or timetable, and you will almost certainly need new cable modems. But it's still a big deal for Voda to put this into public - if they don't do it, they'll look silly (bit like announcing 5G then saying 'Yea Nah we're going to take an MVNO from Spark instead').



DOCSIS 3.0 uses multiple, bonded channels, each about 6MHz wide. These channels are exactly (digital) TV channels. (The North American standard uses 6MHz channels. PAL uses 7 or 8. DOCSIS uses the 6MHz channel.)

DOCSIS 3.1 uses a different technology, borrowing OFDM from the mobile world. Basically, a lot of very much smaller frequency subcarriers (not channels) aggregated into very much wider DOCSIS 3.1 'channels' that can be up to 200MHz wide. (Although you might want to make them smaller and then bond them to avoid parts of the spectrum.)

Apart from anything else, OFDM is incredibly more noise immune.

Furthermore, the modulation technique has improved. DOCSIS 3.0 typically uses up to QAM 256 (8 bits per Hz) for 48Mbps (raw, before error correction) on a 6MHz channel. DOCSIS 3.1 can use QAM 4096 (12 bits per Hz) and even allows for QAM16384 (14 bits per Hz). Since that means reliably distinguishing 16k signal levels, it's pretty impressive technology. QAM4k is more achievable outside a lab (at the moment).

DOCSIS 3.1 also does better error correction.

Which all means:
Yes, you absolutely need new modems to do DOCSIS 3.1. This is not something that a firmware upgrade can fix.

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  # 1426497 11-Nov-2015 19:56
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I definitely agree that DOCSIS 3.1 requires a new modem. 

And while I don't want to push the thread off topic...

michaeln: 
Apart from anything else, OFDM is incredibly more noise immune.


OFDM has the advantage of spectral efficiency (due to overlapping subcarriers) and resiliency to inter-symbol interference (as each data symbol is transmitted more slowly across the subcarriers). However, I have not come across any literature claiming that OFDM improves noise immunity... 

michaeln: 
Furthermore, the modulation technique has improved. DOCSIS 3.0 typically uses up to QAM 256 (8 bits per Hz) for 48Mbps (raw, before error correction) on a 6MHz channel. DOCSIS 3.1 can use QAM 4096 (12 bits per Hz) and even allows for QAM16384 (14 bits per Hz). Since that means reliably distinguishing 16k signal levels, it's pretty impressive technology. QAM4k is more achievable outside a lab (at the moment).


Don't mean to be pedantic, but QAM 256 = 8 bits/symbol, QAM16384 = 14 bits/symbol etc...

And yes, QAM16384 is completely mind-boggling, when in the wireless standards we go up to QAM256 (which is crazy in itself, given how much more noise is present in wireless devices). Amazing what you can do with cables!



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  # 1426515 11-Nov-2015 20:27
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Found this press release issued on 12 Oct 2015  - http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/arris-unveils-next-generation-docsis-31-modems-300157703.html

 

"ARRIS's new DOCSIS 3.1 devices include a dedicated cable modem for operators and a retail cable modem:

 

     

  • Touchstone CM8200 – This ultra-fast DOCSIS 3.1 modem delivers unprecedented data rates of more than 5 Gbps downstream and 2 Gbps upstream. Switchable filters with full 204MHz upstream and 1218MHz downstream support reliable gigabit performance, while reducing interference in the home network.
  • SURFboard® SB8200 Cable Modem – This modem offers the same DOCSIS 3.1 performance and features as the CM8200, but is intended for retail customers, who can take advantage of its 32x8 QAM channel bonding capabilities on DOCSIS 3.0 cable systems."

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  # 1426551 11-Nov-2015 21:19
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Skillie: Found this press release issued on 12 Oct 2015  - http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/arris-unveils-next-generation-docsis-31-modems-300157703.html

"ARRIS's new DOCSIS 3.1 devices include a dedicated cable modem for operators and a retail cable modem:

 

     

  • Touchstone CM8200 – This ultra-fast DOCSIS 3.1 modem delivers unprecedented data rates of more than 5 Gbps downstream and 2 Gbps upstream. Switchable filters with full 204MHz upstream and 1218MHz downstream support reliable gigabit performance, while reducing interference in the home network.
  • SURFboard® SB8200 Cable Modem – This modem offers the same DOCSIS 3.1 performance and features as the CM8200, but is intended for retail customers, who can take advantage of its 32x8 QAM channel bonding capabilities on DOCSIS 3.0 cable systems."


Motorola and Cisco appear to be out, and Technicolor is currently in until Huawei can do something better I guess. Getting QAM up to 4096 and 16384 is getting very fine... but at least unlike mobile the technology is running on a real physical shielded copper cable and not the wet noodle that is mobile :-)

Key point... new modems.

I presume t-box, v-box, x-box or whatever the new settop boxes (apple tv.....? that would be funny) are nicely isolated and won't need replacing.... mind you the way sky's content is going, TV OTT is the way to do it. Seriously don't use the settop box that much compared to freeview and VOD.




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  # 1426716 12-Nov-2015 08:40
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kaczor47: I definitely agree that DOCSIS 3.1 requires a new modem. 

And while I don't want to push the thread off topic...

michaeln: 
Apart from anything else, OFDM is incredibly more noise immune.


OFDM has the advantage of spectral efficiency (due to overlapping subcarriers) and resiliency to inter-symbol interference (as each data symbol is transmitted more slowly across the subcarriers). However, I have not come across any literature claiming that OFDM improves noise immunity... 


Most cable noise is in the form of interference, which tends also to be frequency specific. OFDM means that you lose some (all) bits for a while in just a a portion of your band.

kaczor47:
Don't mean to be pedantic, but QAM 256 = 8 bits/symbol, QAM16384 = 14 bits/symbol etc...

I think that's why it's called Geekzone laughing

In the context of explaining how MHz become bits/s on DOCSIS, I figured Hz was probably more informative.

What actually goes on as DOCSIS constantly negotiates power levels and modulations on the fly is even more mind boggling. laughing

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  # 1426722 12-Nov-2015 08:45
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One presumes the ADB STB's will all have to be finally swapped out to free up spectrum before this can occur?



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  # 1433258 23-Nov-2015 13:07
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freitasm:
MikeB4: VF could use Geekzone members to trial the service


I doubt it. We did it with TelstraClear. Interesting I didn't get a press release or message regarding this, so there's always this.



Have there been any developments with this?




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